Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Jimbuna]

Fearing new Russian threat, Ukraine races to upgrade its navy
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/23/e...cmd/index.html

Fat lot of use that would be.

[blackswan40]

best get some Polish Brickies on job

[ET2SN]

Meanwhile, the US is keeping a carrier group in the Ionian Sea, south of Istanbul, for- uhh- reasons.

[Skybird]

The Ionian Sea is 900-1100 nautical miles from the Donbass region. Quote: "No one concerned or concerning, friend or otherwise, will see anything in the Ionian."

https://blog.usni.org/posts/2021/12/...the-ionian-sea

Quote: "Make sure you have the right heat for the right appetite."

I am not convinced. But then, it is no US business anyway, at least it shouldn't be. Europe is called for deeds, not the US.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Meanwhile, the US is keeping a carrier group in the Ionian Sea, south of Istanbul, for- uhh- reasons.

That's simply "cutlass-rattling" as opposed to "sabre-rattling"...one thing though: both Ol' Boney and Adoph screwed their respective pooches by engaging in winter warfare in Russia I marvel that Vladimir P. thinks mid-January will be good for him in UkraIne...

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Ionian Sea is 900-1100 nautical miles from the Donbass region. Quote: "No one concerned or concerning, friend or otherwise, will see anything in the

It's all Greek to me too!??

[ET2SN]

Aircraft carriers can move. They are good at that.
The aircraft the aircraft carriers carry can also move. Really fast.

[mapuc]

Everybody is awaiting an invasion of Ukraine, Even myself expect this to happen very soon.

But what if the troops and material near the Ukrainian border is nothing but a very strong signal to the West(NATO and EU) Stay out of Ukraine or we will invade the country ?

Markus

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Aircraft carriers can move. They are good at that.
The aircraft the aircraft carriers carry can also move. Really fast.

...for which China is developing the hypersonic anti-carrier missile with it's own dummy practice carrier somewhere in the middle of its desert...

[Skybird]

Its pilots also can quickly bring boots on the the ground, once they got shot down.

I am not the first pointing out that Russia probably has the strongest and deepest-layered aerial missile and interceptor defence in the world. Russian equipment in the Middle East operated by Arab crews, not trained Russians, should not be the standard by which to judge the systems technical efficiency. And I remind that Russia claism since years that its new radars have seriously degraded the stealth fighters efficiency to hide. Who wants to find out if that is true? I am not eager.

Much of the Ukraine, and beyond, is practically a Russian air and missile defence zone. Russian missiles of many kinds also reach far into Europe, last but not least from Kaliningrad.

This is not Libya, or the Iraq, or Afghanistan. Nor is it the technically disadvantaged Sovjet Union.

Most of NATO's aerial anti-tank-campaign in Yugoslavia fell for dummies, btw. Regarding reducing the combat readiness and efficiency of the Yugoslavian ground forces, it was a huge failure, the attacked Yugoslavian brigades retreated later practically fully integrated and in coordinated fashion, with small losses suffered, and and combat-ready. It was the bombing of civilian and industrial infrastructure that forced Yugoslavia to give up, not the damage done to its armed forces.

And still, this is an issue the Europeans must come to terms with. Its no American issue. And if Europe proves to be incapable to handle it, it only proves what everybody already knows anyway: that it is strong in words and weak in powers. Last but not least thanks to Germany, Europe has brought itself into such a hopeless dilemma that practically no good options are left. And that accusation goes beyond just Norstream 2.

We should have stuck with oil as long as needed, and never should have given up nuclear. Now we hope to have - Russian - gas as an interims solution after having scared away all investors. And we push for ever stronger climate goals and expensive costs while our private households and energy-intensive industries are facing threatening energy and gas prices. Vollpfosten. If Germany talks of sanctions, it is completely uncredible. Russia would retaliate with cutting gas. Germany would survive that, but the economic and private costs would be very high.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Its pilots also can quickly bring boots on the the ground, once they got shot down.

I am not the first pointing out that Russia probably has the strongest and deepest-layered aerial missile and interceptor defence in the world.

Sky;
The USSR had the strongest and deepest-layered aerial missile and interceptor defense in the world. Maybe, it depends on how you score those categories.

Modern Russia has TV commercials and propaganda. And, hyper turbo super cavitating doomsday torpedos and internet trolls.

How do you think the rest of the world views invading another county? What if they only want to create a buffer zone? By invading ANOTHER freaking country?? Where does that end??


Here's a thought- when was the last time you had a yearning to visit Moscow?

If Vlad thinks the rest of the world is good at pretending they don't really want to invade, maybe someone should check his water supply.

[em2nought]

Lets hope a so called American President doesn't decide he has to get involved in order to save his absurd Presidency.

[Skybird]

I have no craving to go to Russia, China or Iran, ever. I was in in Iran, for many months, late 90s, okay. But I was a different man then, and I ticked differently back then. As a result I see Iran more differentiated today then most others. But that doe snot chnbage my detemrination to insist that we muzst confront them. Same with Russia. That i voice a more complex, complicated view on thigns doe snot mean I love Putin. Far form it. I soberly amdit however that he plays the Grand Game very well, and better than any European leaders, or any of the last presidents in the US. I mean after all th8is time he is still there and Russia is strionger than 30 years ago.


Technologically, Russia traditionally has had the upper hand in missile technology, both ATGMs and SAMs. They have produced them in greater variety and mostly for better effectiveness than most Western pendants. They have them in superior quantities, different to the West. Regarding their current SAM and radar technology they absolutely have the ability to turn air spaces into aerial access denial zones - and doing so even far beyond their national borders. I am aware of US stealth technology, yes. I am just not as one-sidedly and enthusiastically convinced of its effectiveness against a real high tech opponent with practical expertise to reduce exactly these kind of systems's effectiveness.



I do not say the Russian stealth technology is as good alreadsy as the American, and they certainly know that. Its their counter-stealth abilities that would give me concerns.



Some years ago America was laughing about the possibility that China could turn former ICBMs into carrier killers. Well, its been a longer time now that I heard any further laughter.


And the last wars run by the US against technologically far inferior enemies did not really went that well at all. Judging by the end results, I would rate them all as strategic defeats.



I think Biden has that on his mind and that is why he gives the imoresison oif staying clear of any military engagement over the Ukraine. I think that is wise. I cannot imagine that the US military is all hooray over the outlook of needing to fight the Russians. The outcome is - open.

[Jimbuna]

I really can't see anyone in the west (country-wise) taking on Russia in a military context. The best and probably most effective way would be through trade sanctions surely.

[Skybird]

German foreign ministeriness Baerbock refused in Kiev the delivery of any German weaponry, instead offered "solidarity".

The British meanwhile sent a first of several batches of short range ATGMs, and dispatched more military advisors.



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60033012

[Jimbuna]

Why on earth is the UK getting involved