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Old 08-22-2018, 03:57 AM   #16
Dowly
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Originally Posted by XenonSurf View Post
Things have been taken out of the game prior of release, and there were different builds showing in the trailers, all that's true, we can all be obset about it yes, but really... do we ever make such a discussion for other major game titles where this constantly happens almost in total silence? No, I have never heard this kind of negative hype like the one for NMS.
Aliens: Colonial Marines got the same treatment, so I return the question: If ACM got bashed for its misleading marketing, why should No Man's Sky get a pass?



I shall leave this here as well, a good overview of what happened prior and after the release:




EDIT: Something I was not aware of until I just checked: the game is still, two years after release, sold at a full price of 55€.

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Old 08-22-2018, 10:18 PM   #17
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Here is a video with another perspective. SM doesn't give many interviews, especially after all this hype about his person. The video below respects that giving the main statements of SM in a text form instead of the full voiceover,

One must recall that Hello Games is a small team of developers and doesn't have the big personel you sea in EA or elsewhere. That makes this NMS game performance bigger than ever IMO.
And for the last time: I don't care, and I don't believe that Sean did lie about the game before or after its release. He had a bad start but he has seriously worked on the game over the past 2 years where other bigger companies would fail miserably and just abandon such a project. It's because Sean Murray and his team have the force to go their own way - whatever people want or want not to see in the game - and:



They deliver. Wether it pleases the critics or not doesn't matter.




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Old 08-24-2018, 12:13 AM   #18
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VR support please and i will throw my money to it.


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Old 08-24-2018, 09:33 AM   #19
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Having watched both videos, liking the first better than the second, I think it comes down to this, for me at last:

they should have released it under the Early Access label back then. Then all what was missing would have been interpreted as almost expected part of the show: Early Access means the thing is in development, is in constant change, is not complete. Players buy this at usually recued prices, for whatever their individual motivations are, and the producers get early feedback that still can find its way into the development or makes them aware where they err. Both sides win.

Instead they sold it as the finished package without warning, and this is where they went amiss and got Flak, and rightly so. Plus they sold it at full price. Double fail.


Their behaviour afterwards just should serve as a warning for everybody considering to do business with them. If you do, don'T trust their words, make sure you get all what you pay for: not in two years, but at the time you pay for it. If you cannot, stay away from them.



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Old 08-24-2018, 11:24 AM   #20
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When I buy a game or whatever in a 2-figure price range, I'm not looking for a business partner but for features I'm interested in and like to play. All the side story doesn't bother me.
Now, for example, I play Silent Hunter V without knowing who the devs in Ubisoft are. Should I now investigate if they are all ethically right and throw away the game if not? I think I have a collection of hundreds if not thousands of games. Should I now repeat this investigation for all of these games? Methink not.


With today's media one can make profound decisions about what to buy - or not buy. For No Man's Sky I realize that most of those who relentlessly are lamenting are those who have pre-ordered the game or blindly bought it without getting further information. They are stucked in a loop...And these are the people to be blamed, not Hello Games, not Sean Murray. SM was right to sell his game to people who pre-ordered it, it's what these people wanted, so he would have been stupid not to do so.


(...)
11. Thou shalt not follow hype
12. Thou shalt not pre-order
13. Thou shalt not complain if you do and get pissed on
14. Remember the Update and Patch day to keep it holy.

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Old 08-24-2018, 04:44 PM   #21
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That he took an opportunity anbd got away with it doe snot mean he did right. It only means he got away with it while playing foul.


It seems to be fact that they advertised features that were not there, and did not tell they were not there. You said you look, when buying a game, for features you like. Many of those features you may have read about, where not there. Why you defend this, is beyond me. You certainly contradict your own statements, in parts. I find this fascinating: how people can cheat on themselves. Ethics behaviour, you mentioned, and your lack of care for it. Well, its not so much a thing for an ethics commission. Selling something on grounds of false advertising, telling customers they get somethign that in fact they get not, the law simply calls: fraud. Correct it would have been if they said two years ago the game is not complete. Thus I mentioned they should have sold it back then as Early Access, for reduced price. They still would have found their buyers. There always are.



The man tried a coup and ran, and he got away with it, fine. But that does not make it right.
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:56 PM   #22
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You said you look, when buying a game, for features you like. Many of those features you may have read about, where not there. Why you defend this, is beyond me. You certainly contradict your own statements, in parts.

That's wrong, but how do you come to such a conclusion? For your information:

There was the catastrophical first release which I was fully aware of (and all the Reddit ****storm about it), I have been discussing this game on SpaceSimCentral long before it came out, making suggestions and warnings. Then, my review of the game (published on SpaceSimCentral and GOG) did give the game a good rating for its originality, but a clear minus for the lack of overall playing features in relation to its price, basically saying it was a release half of a tech-demo and half of a game, so I wasn't very gentle on it (just in case you think my judgment is biased).

After first release there was 'Foundation' update which added DLC worth buying features (enough for me, so I bought the game and didn't regret it), then 'Pathfinder' DLC worth buying features (the state in which I did my game reviews), then 'Atlas Rises' DLC worth buying features, and now 'Next' DLC worth buying features.
And these new features are all added for FREE. So this cuts things straight short for any hyper-negative critics.

For a player who is interested in space games, I will recommend this game because of its current state, and I will not bother him with some horrifying stories about the private life of the game's developer, his mental state, his ethical attitude or whatnot else. He ain't to be a saint, and I'm not here to make a better world, i'm here to LIVE in it.

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Old 06-05-2020, 03:31 PM   #23
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I got the game recently, with all its DLCs released so far, in a smile price pack.
And I play it in VR.

I like it. Its huge, it has its moments, and in VR is really nice to get involved. It seems also that reviews have fundamentally changed and now recognise that the developer has spent the past years indeed to give massive support to what seemed to have been a dud at release. But that was 2016, now is 2020. I know from Raceroom how far games can change over the years, Raceroom was a desaster at start in 2012, today is one of the absolutely best race sim packages on the market. So a dud can rise like phoenix from the ashes - and NMS has.

It reminds me often of Subnautica, I mean the visual style and the tasks you are doing, just the claustrophobia and intense atmosphere is missing, while it offers the WAYYYYYY bigger playground. There are weak details, for exmaple that capital ships do not engage in space battles (so far?). Anyhow, for the asking price now, what you get in the complete package today is worth to be recommended for that money. Its not perfect, but it is solid, and in VR quite good. Me at least does not complain.


I compare it to Elite in VR, and can just usum it up0 ba saying that I simpyl did not ge tinto Elite. They game just did not pick me up where I was. X Rebirth I played a lot ion 2D, and liked it, soem thigns it does better than NMS, others worse. The new X game (in VR) I tried twice (with one year between both attempts) and refunded twice, they did not even care to get the player hooked by giving it a steering setup method that worked, I already got scared away by just trying to configure the virtual controlling (and failed twice, the axis callibration just did not work).



Bury the rough start of NMS, its over four years ago. What it is now, is respectable.
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Old 06-06-2020, 04:58 AM   #24
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Bury the rough start of NMS, its over four years ago. What it is now, is respectable.
Yeah, no. Sean Murray lied all the way up until the release, there was a review embargo so people would not know the state of the game. What they've done 4 years on is completely irrelevant.


This is the kind of BS why game companies keep getting away with the sh!t the do. People going "Well, it's ok now, I enjoy it". That's great, but don't come crying when you get burned next time, because it's you who enables this sh!t. (not talking about you Sky specifically, just in general)
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Old 06-06-2020, 05:52 AM   #25
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Dowly, I personally dislike these endlessly lasting, years-.taking "Early Access" projects they now have at around every corner at Steam. I am not new to criticising broken game releases. Early Access I accept as long as it lasts not longer than one year. Else the Early Access release imo was way too premature. I am very choosey regarding developers whose Early Access projects I support. A very positive, professionally done example was Assetto Corsa, both of them. A very deterring, unprofessionally handled example was Wreckfest.



NMS may have been all that what you said back then and still think today, its just that it does not matter anymore for people finding the game today. Like myself, I have not gotten into it before now, cheap price, all content. And what I hold in my hands, is good. Not pure gold, but a really solid, good package. How it got to what it is now - I am no interested in, honestly. I bought the present, not the past.



In 2012, a famous company named SimBin released the "successor", so it was hoped, to GTR-2. The sim must have been a desastetr, I read, terrible physics, lousy AI. The company had made many mistakes before, and broke apart, went bancrupt. The remains of the team reassembled in two groups, and became the core teams for two other new studios, the one made Project Cars then, the other, under the name Sector3, cooperated with a suspension producer from the real world, and started to pick up the remains of Raceroom. When they released their first big revamp of the formerly already buried body, it was another game, and that was when I stumbled over it. You see, I did not care what there was in drama and msitakes before, what I had found was poure gold, love at first sight. Since then, 2015 I think, it became better and better, went from strength to strength, and nobody, really nobody today laughs anymore or talks about the bad start eight years ago. It just does not matter anymore. And its former outstanding weaknesses today are two of its most outstanding positives: the physics belong to the most convcining in business, the aI is the banchmark in business to which all others must compare.



You must not like NMS. Or like it but stay away from it for any reeason of yours, if you think you must. Its okay. I just gave a headsup for those people finding it now, and hearing whispers about some sky falling event in the dark ages. To them i say: those days are over, the game is okay, and apparently still in full development for further new content. In VR, its especially nice to crawl over the surface of some god-forsaken planet.



A good game. Not more, not less. The rest is history. Let it rest now.
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Old 06-06-2020, 08:50 AM   #26
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I , for one, am becoming tired of being a non-consensual beta tester for video games, and especially paying them to beta test their games. If they want me to beta test a game, I will be more than happy to do so if


1. They provide me the game for free
2. They specifically tell me that I am to beta test it.


I have tested software and I kinda enjoy that sort of stuff.



But I am not happy paying full retail cost for a game that is advertised as being complete only to find out that it is not.



And I am not talking about $10.00 indie games. These games are in the $60.00 + range for a digital only copy!



It seems that the game designers are not even trying to put out a full version of their games at release. It seems that too many of them are releasing with the exception that it is incomplete and that it will need to be patched.



I stopped buying games when they first come out. I have plenty of complete video games to occupy my time.



I will patiently wait for other consumers to pay for the "honor" of beta testing games.



I have been burned too many times.



This "oh well, we will patch it later" attitude has to stop and the only power I have is the power of my wallet. I am but one person and I don't think any video game developer cares about me.



But if we, as a community, reward undesirable behavior, nothing will change.
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Old 06-06-2020, 08:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platapus View Post
I , for one, am becoming tired of being a non-consensual beta tester for video games, and especially paying them to beta test their games. If they want me to beta test a game, I will be more than happy to do so if


1. They provide me the game for free
2. They specifically tell me that I am to beta test it.


I have tested software and I kinda enjoy that sort of stuff.



But I am not happy paying full retail cost for a game that is advertised as being complete only to find out that it is not.



And I am not talking about $10.00 indie games. These games are in the $60.00 + range for a digital only copy!



It seems that the game designers are not even trying to put out a full version of their games at release. It seems that too many of them are releasing with the exception that it is incomplete and that it will need to be patched.



I stopped buying games when they first come out. I have plenty of complete video games to occupy my time.



I will patiently wait for other consumers to pay for the "honor" of beta testing games.



I have been burned too many times.



This "oh well, we will patch it later" attitude has to stop and the only power I have is the power of my wallet. I am but one person and I don't think any video game developer cares about me.



But if we, as a community, reward undesirable behavior, nothing will change.
You see, with NMS sky I followed your advice. And thats why now I am a happy player.

I spend last evening with space battles that in VR are quite impressive to me ( I was wrong, some of the capital ships do engage with flaming weapons), and organising my own fleets. Impresisve also is that he coickpit control with VR handles work - well, even when dogfighting. It works like a charm. If there is one wroing thnan that at the beginnign you can be a bit overwhelmed and clueless in findign out what to do now and where to go next, and why. The VR is not just an addon they threw after the game later on. It feels as if the game was designed from beginning on with VR on mind.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:48 AM   #28
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Yeah, no. Sean Murray lied all the way up until the release, there was a review embargo so people would not know the state of the game. What they've done 4 years on is completely irrelevant.


This is the kind of BS why game companies keep getting away with the sh!t the do. People going "Well, it's ok now, I enjoy it". That's great, but don't come crying when you get burned next time, because it's you who enables this sh!t. (not talking about you Sky specifically, just in general)

I respect your opinions about the game, but I see it differently:
If not the Sony company to give the financial push to the game, NMS would have been released in Early Access and no one would have complained about missing features at the start or later. Now, with Sony involved an early access became impossible, the game had to be complete - which it wasn't. And rushing buyers or deceived pre-order buyers? I don't care for them, they got their fair share for their stupidity, sorry.


XS
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Old 06-11-2020, 09:39 AM   #29
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With a bigger update today the game now gets crossplay capability for PC, PS4 and Xbox, which will be activated from tomorrow on, the readme says. I think crossplay between PC-2D and PC-VR already has been implermented, but I did not test it, since I do not play multiplayer and so do not care. But for those who do, this is good news.
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