Fighting in SBP-PE in WWII-style

Skybird · 01-07-12, 06:13 AM

Edited June 2013:

The forum software ruins this text time and again when I tried to post a clean version of it. I therefor post a link to a PDF now that allow the interested to read it oinline, download it, print it - fully formatted.

LINK: SBP and WWII

Its a Dropbox link. When it does not work, tell me.

Gorshkov · 01-07-12, 06:56 AM

Think about wonderful SFK42 game with amazing mods! There you can fight realistic WW2 battles driving historical tanks! You can play it all for only 20 bucks buying SFK42 here at Gamersgate. You don't have to pay five-six times more for graphically old-fashioned toy and next being forced to make some spells and hexes to transform it into "WW2 tanksim".

Play quickly and easily what you really like to play!

frinik · 01-07-12, 01:27 PM

Skybird what you have done with your interesting post is very informative although I must say that you are pursuing the wrong tack.I think trying to recreate a WWII style war or sim with SPB is not really realistic at least in the atmosphere sense of the word.I think modern tanks lack the iconic flavour or design that WWII buffs look for in a tank sim.However what you have done is much more interesting in the sense that a lot of us are left yearning for a tank sim that would cover tank warfare from 1950 till 1970.There are none.It's either WWII or the 70s and beyond or bust!

For those of us interested in fighting tanks with some of the improvements that came after 1945 but before tank warfare became a press button war with all the technological improvements in thermal imagery, satellite guidances, computer assisted firing systems and super ammo that came with the 70s there's nothing, no sim on the Israeli-Arab wars where tanks like the M-60, Chieftains, T-55s, 72s, AMX Centurion tanks played a prominent role nor Korea etc.I think your suggestion to tone down the tanks in SPB and just keep basic features with perhaps gun stabilisation retained as it came in the 50s and laser sighting would go a long satisfying those of us with a craving for recreating tank warfare in the 50s and 60s for which there's with absolutely no sim or game made for that period.So you have given us( with SPB) a very worthy idea!

On the other hand re WWII somehow your plan I guess won't meet that much enthusiasm.But SPB is a wonderful sim which can stand on it's own and has nothing to envy to WWII tanking.

Re SF you and I disagree on it's value but I respect your opinion and understand where you are coming from.That being said for those who like that sim Graviteam.com is where the afficionados meet on a forum.

Anyway thanks for ressurecting that sticky because it's really great for the fans and shows how versatile SPB can be!

What you said about 2000 metres being the absolute limit for WWII tanks is not correct.Late war German tanks crews reported multiple kills with the Panzer VI ausf., B( improperly valled King Tiger( Koenigstiger) or Tiger II), the Jagdpanther and Nashorn at ranges of 3000 to 3500 metres.However these were the exceptions more than the rule and only the Germans had the combination of guns, optics, trained crews and doctrine( long range kills) required to achieve such feats.The average tanks battles were typically fought at 700 metres rabnge in WWII.

Cheers

Skybird · 01-07-12, 05:20 PM

Frinik,

it'S okay,what you said I already knew in 2009, when I originally wrote that essay. Back then somebody had made "Viller's Bocage", a map trying to catch the typical looks of those WWII French rolling landscapes. He also released a mission following the examples I had described. At eSim forums, some people at least found it interesting, and very very different from SBP standard. Let's face it - it is very difficult to fight, win and survive in a battle fought like I described, even more if you add a weather scheme with mist and limited visibility - then it becomes real scary. And that difficulty was for the main what I wanted to demonstrate. Personally, I do not do like that in SBP anymore. How different and more difficult it is you now expereince with the new playable T-72 in SBP, and it's almost WWII-looking interior. A rolling coffin designed in a cheap way to survive just the first few minutes of a battle - not to give the crew a real chnane to live by the end of the war.

When the essay originally was posted, TvT and SF also had just arrived, and it was an answer to some people complaining or saying that these games were oh so "realistic" in presenting a "simulation" of real WWII type tank combat, or they said they would kill for getting the opportunity to play a tanksim like that, but there were none. The latter I wanted to show that they can get closer to it by "absuing" SBP the way I outlined.

On SF and TvT, I would prefer to not comment here and tpoday, becasue my references to that stuff only came due to the destruicvie handling of the debate by Gorshkov - my references are triggered in direct reply to his almost trolling comments here and especially in the SBP resources thread. I took heavy Flak back then for the SF review, since it listed several points why I did not like that game and gave up on it, it all became quite hostile on a level I experienced as quite personal, but I stick to the points of criticism i listed there. I just will not revive that ugly old debate. Neal decided to not post/publish it formally (the text is a pre-released draft), as it originally was planned - the air was too hot, at least I assume that was the motivation, and I can understand it.

You are right on the atmosphere thing, for people willing to kill for a WWII sim due to its looks, my considerations cannot be satisfying even when using one of those very few WWII-skins that are available for mostly the Leopards . But for me, immersion has also a lot to do with functionality, handling, tactics and sounds. I see SBP as superior in these regards, and so I wrote down how far one can move towards old-fashioned tanking battles with SBP withgout any computerised hightech gadgets

On rare occasions I still received feedback on the old posting of that essay, asking why the text was so much corrupted and split into several parts/posts. Well, I just wanted to repair it today. And without Gorshkov provocating me in three different threads and having posted several even false things about SBP, nothing about the difference of patches and upgrades and about Steel Fury and the old review would have been added into this thread, at least not by me.

I'm glad if the essay motivates you to try something new in SBP, and if it doesn'T or you prefer any of the now several WWII tank games released over the past three years, then I am fine with that too and wish you a good time with the title of your choice!

My enthusiasm for SBP you please forgive me, I am known for it, and after five years and that long review I did on it back then, people even expect it from me now.

I know about it's weaknesses, too, and there are several ones for sure. It's just not as much fun to post about them - that makes more sense in the eSim forums. I doubt they read in this silent graveyard of a forum.

Gorshkov · 01-07-12, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

SFK42...? Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942...???

"Think about..."

Yes, think about it indeed - and bnetter think about it twice and three times before parting from your money, no matter how little it is.

You don't need to think twice - "Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942" is five times cheaper than artificially advertised as WW2 tanksim SBPro PE civilian toy. Well, you should rather think five times before buying SBPro PE. In "Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942" you get right out the box: realistic tanks, realistic theater of military operations with correct historical background and much better graphics than found in SBPro PE oldie. You don't need any poor tweaking!

You buy, you download, you install and you play WW2 tank battles - as simple as it is!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

"There you can fight realistic WWII battles..."

Yeah. Sure.

Oh, great - Skybird is right! Indeed, realistic does not mean ridiculously transforming Leopard-2A6 into Tiger! Beware - in SBPro PE toy no even 1950s vintage tank is playable. It will be looking like derision to play Leo-2 and Abrams artificially "castrated" with thermal sights, gun stabilization, using auxiliary sights as primary sights but still with their armors being ten times thicker than those found in WW2 tanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

"Play quickly and easily what you really like to play!"

Play something that disappeared surprisingly fast from the scene and never was much asked for again on 2nd hand market.

ROTFL! "Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942" is still up and running! Here you are links to community sites:

- http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?board=1.0
- http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...team_Sims.html
- http://tanksim.tk/wfdownloads-viewcat.cid-15.htm

You can download plenty of FREE MODS from there transforming "Steel Fury Kharkov 1942" into a fully-fledged realistic WW2 tanksim featuring many playable tanks, self propelled guns - not any ersatz toys.

Of course don't take into account any Skybird's reviews of SFK42. It's wasting of your time to read them.

frinik · 01-07-12, 09:10 PM

Gorschkov I don't want to get into a shouting argument with you but I think you are going over the top!

I happen to have both SPB(since 2009) and Steel Fury( since 2008) and I love both but I don't confuse apples and oranges.SPB is a real simulator not a simulation game as SF.It's not perfect but good enough for many Nato armies and the gaming version is also far superior to anything else on the market currently.SABoW looks interesting and I am considering pruchasing it but I don't think it's meant to compete in any way with SPB but just giving a take on a different era with tanks you don't find in other titles including SPB.

I play Steel Fury much more than SPB because WWII is more to my liking and I have 6 installations of the game on 2 laptops and a deskptop.If you care to share your love of that game then join us on Graviteam.com SF forum and make a valuable contribution and share the latest mods and missions.I am there very much present and active under the same handle.

That being said bashing SPB and taunting Skybird as you are doing is not only immature but jerkish!You dislike SPB or find it overpriced then as Skybird suggested either don't purchase it and don't play it.It's your choice and it's fine.But plugging SABoW by bashing SPB on it's own sticky really does not impress me.

Graviteam makes good games in their own right on a string budget and they make it clear that they are offering something different not trying to compete head on against be it SPB or any other game.

Finally the issue of the price is up to every individual to decide whether they want to part with their money for a sim or a game or not.None of your business.If you feel that SPB is fleecing you it's your right but you've made your point now grow up and let it go!

Skybird · 01-07-12, 09:35 PM

Frinik,

while I appreciate your assistance, I only say: don't feed the trolls. It took me some time, the past three days, to realise that I was dealing with one. But then I also got PMs today telling me he darkened other forums here, too.

So don't waste your time. It's enough that I did, here, and in one or two other threads.

Gorshkov · 01-08-12, 09:10 AM

Quote: