[REL]The Wolves of Steel - SH5 Megamod

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Can't say that I have but I'll check it out for sure , although I'll definitively need a dictionary since I'm not familiar with many of used nautical terms...

lol yes: no matter in which idiom, nautical terminology is not easy to grab for noninitiates, let alone doing it in a language that is not your mother tongue. I have had myself an hard time following CaptanBones in some of his most technical passages, but his explainations were so interesting to me that I had to go through a crash course of navigation in order to follow him.

Out of jokes, my question to you was mostly relative to my (modding) speculations on broad pennants in convoys and taskforces:

Originally Posted by gap

Adding an extra node/bone to the tallest mast of each ship, and linking a Flag Officer's pennant to it (as a normal equipement) should be no problem. The problem is making sure that, for each convoy series, only the first escort unit assigned to the convoy (acting in game as the escort leader) and only the first merchant unit (acting as the commodore ship), have the proper pennants for their role.
In order to achieve that, we could create proxy copies of some destroyers and of some valuable merchant ships, give them pennants, and make sure that one of them is on top of the ship/escort list of each convoy series with a spawn probability of 100%, but then commodore ship and escort commander would always belong to the same class for that convoy series.
A possible alternative could be assigning the ships with pennants to one or more of the special ship types (Type17=Elite Destroyer escort, Type108=Rare Cargo ship, Type109=Rare Troop Transport), and putting on top of each convoy's merchant/escort list a generic entry with a 100% spawn chance and a special ship type specified, but again, if we needed to use ships from of those types elsewhere in the caimpaign, they would always display the pennants, even when they don't apply to those ship's momentary role.
A third alternative is creating one or two new nations (one for Axis and one for Allies), and putting in their rosters only ships "equipped" with command pennants. If we did that, we could draw commodore ships and escort leaders for each convoy from that generic nation, being sure that the game will pick up randomly from their pool and only from there, and we no limitation but the fact of seeing the new fantasy nation(s) listed in museum.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

However, I have moved flag nodes for few ship types which already have unused flag masts in their stern and in game it looks like this. is this OK or I should discard the changes?

Going by what I had read before on British etiquette, your changes should be correct; going by what I have learned from CaptBones, those ensigns should be moved to the top of a mast.

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Can't say that I have but I'll check it out for sure , although I'll definitively need a dictionary since I'm not familiar with many of used nautical terms...

However, I have moved flag nodes for few ship types which already have unused flag masts in their stern and in game it looks like this. is this OK or I should discard the changes?

That looks nice!
Furthermore they should be harder to identify from far away...good!
At the moment, we can identify ships nationality from very far away as it is one of the first thing we see at the horizon, after the smoke! (The flag)
Placed at the stern, hence quite low on the silhouette, it should change the deal

[vdr1981]

Adding an extra node/bone to the tallest mast of each ship, and linking a Flag Officer's pennant to it (as a normal equipement) should be no problem. The problem is making sure that, for each convoy series, only the first escort unit assigned to the convoy (acting in game as the escort leader) and only the first merchant unit (acting as the commodore ship), have the proper pennants for their role.
In order to achieve that, we could create proxy copies of some destroyers and of some valuable merchant ships, give them pennants, and make sure that one of them is on top of the ship/escort list of each convoy series with a spawn probability of 100%, but then commodore ship and escort commander would always belong to the same class for that convoy series.
A possible alternative could be assigning the ships with pennants to one or more of the special ship types (Type17=Elite Destroyer escort, Type108=Rare Cargo ship, Type109=Rare Troop Transport), and putting on top of each convoy's merchant/escort list a generic entry with a 100% spawn chance and a special ship type specified, but again, if we needed to use ships from of those types elsewhere in the caimpaign, they would always display the pennants, even when they don't apply to those ship's momentary role.
A third alternative is creating one or two new nations (one for Axis and one for Allies), and putting in their rosters only ships "equipped" with command pennants. If we did that, we could draw commodore ships and escort leaders for each convoy from that generic nation, being sure that the game will pick up randomly from their pool and only from there, and we no limitation but the fact of seeing the new fantasy nation(s) listed in museum.

All options sound feasible but, all of them also requires serious changes in massive GroupTypeDefs.cfg files. There are 12 of them (each for every campaign chapter) and in TWoS they are not exactly the same like they were in OHII. Every GroupTypeDefs.cfg file have also approximately 50.000 lines of code.
I'm not prepared to dive in these massive files (again) right now but this will certainly stay on my "to do" list for future updates...

I did this once while I was trying to bypass "damaged group leader" CTD caused by TDW's IRAI scripts and it was a LOT of work...

Originally Posted by gap

Going by what I had read before on British etiquette, your changes should be correct; going by what I have learned from CaptBones, those ensigns should be moved to the top of a mast.

So , we aren't quite sure yet where to place flag positions for regular merchants and warships?

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

All options sound feasible but, all of them also requires serious changes in massive GroupTypeDefs.cfg files. There are 12 of them (each for every campaign chapter) and in TWoS they are not exactly the same like they were in OHII. Every GroupTypeDefs.cfg file have also approximately 50.000 lines of code.
I'm not prepared to dive in these massive files (again) right now but this will certainly stay on my "to do" list for future updates...

In the end it is "just" changing the first EscortUnit and the first ConvoyUnit definiton for each convoy, but do it for all the convoys, times the number of campaigns featuring those convoys, yes I must agree that it is quite a lot of work...

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I did this once while I was trying to bypass "damaged group leader" CTD caused by TDW's IRAI scripts and it was a LOT of work...

If I remember correctly, you wanted to replace the first ConvoyUnit with a destroyer, for making it harder for the player to kill/damage her, but why do you say "I was trying". Didn't your trick work and you gave it up, or you have found a proper fix to the problem?

One of the advantages of my idea is that in theory it would make easier for the player to identify the leaders, and to avoid as much as possible attacking them. We could even use some super-duper harmored ships in this role...

Originally Posted by vdr1981

So , we aren't quite sure yet where to place flag positions for regular merchants and warships?

Let's wait for CaptBones' advise on your changes

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

If I remember correctly, you wanted to replace the first ConvoyUnit with a destroyer, for making it harder for the player to kill/damage her, but why do you say "I was trying". Didn't your trick work and you gave it up, or you have found a proper fix to the problem?

I made it eventually, yes...I loaded convoy leaders with "dynamite" so if a player is so lucky to hit exactly them, they'll go "boom" and a "leader duty" will be instantly transferred to unit No2... Works very well in game...

[SC_.ConvoyUnit 1]
Type=101
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=9
InternalCargo=1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=2
SpawnProbability=100
GroupLinkId=0

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Thanks guys for your feedback. Anyone else? It seem that the glitch can be heard only when flooding is present...

Already had flooding, and nothing special to report in the playing sounds...
Have to say i’m Playing without any music background though.

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I made it eventually, yes...I loaded convoy leaders with "dynamite" so if a player is so lucky to hit exactly them, they'll go "boom" and a "leader duty" will be instantly transferred to unit No2... Works very well in game...

Brilliant

[vdr1981]

[Ashikaga]

Hahahahaha epic Vecko!

Quick question is it possible to make a script which turns on sub flags about 10 km from friendly ports as well as home harbors. This because subs on missions never showed their flag. So at the moment I always have to turn on or turn off the no sub flags mod off several kms from port which means exiting and restarting the game. It would be great if it could be automated.

[CaptBones]

Well, out of the loop for a day or so and amazed at what's been going on.

Anyway...back to the matter of flags and pennants...although I really must get to the Kiel Kanal now!

Writing a point-by-point reply is getting kind of cumbersome, so let me try to address the main questions and provide just a little more background.

Additional definitions: National flags and ensigns (naval and merchant marine) are called "colors", or "colours" for our British friends. Colors and "distinguishing" flags (those authorized to be used by Flag Officers...that's where the term comes from, obviously) are "worn" by ships and by individuals (Flag Officers) entitled to display a personal flag. They may also be said to be flown in a ship or at a place. Other types of flags may only be flown or displayed, they are never "worn".

Warships: display of flags is definitely controlled by rules and regulations as well as by custom and tradition. I applaud vdr1981 for the KM ensign changes shown in the screenshots in the 10/08 11:33 AM post. Almost all of the flags in the sim are much too large and prominent at too great a distance. However, the display of ensigns is specific to each navy, with the RN being quite different from the USN and the KM essentially following the same practices as the RN. The USN was discussed earlier, so I will just mention the RN/KM rules. The ensign and the jack are displayed in port, or at anchor/buoy, same as with the USN. At sea, during peacetime, it is worn at the fantail flagstaff, unless the weather is bad, when it is worn at the main peak. At sea, during wartime, it is worn at the main peak, not at the fantail. Also, when in action or going into action, RN and KM warships wore two ensigns, one at the main peak and the other in a "conspicuous position", e.g., from another mast or at the fantail. Now, are convoy escorts (in the sim) "in action" or are they "going into action" and if so, is it possible to display two ensigns? Just asking, not saying it must be so.

As far as pennants go, that is really a great idea, but is also mostly eye candy and a treat for those who take and share screenshots with nice eye candy. In our beloved sims, a Kaleun who can see and appreciate those pennants is one who is flying around "cheating" with the external camera or is virtually floating about in a life-ring or on flotsam from his recently departed "iron coffin".

Merchant ships: much more difficult to say "one size fits all". There are "rules" here too, but much more like custom, tradition and courtesy. They wear their colors at sea largely at the discretion of the Master, except for certain circumstances. Encountering a warship at sea is one such circumstance (failing to dip is considered quite an insult), entering another nation's territorial waters is another, where custom and courtesy requires you to identify your own nationality and to also recognize (and honor) your host nation.

In time of war, it might be preferable for a belligerent nation's ship, sailing alone, to conceal its identity until it can identify any strange ship (or aircraft) that has likely sighted it and is approaching. A belligerent vessel in convoy would not necessarily need to fly its colors, everybody knows who everybody else is. But then, they might be proud of the fact that they are on the team and "giving it a go" in the face of those evil U-boats and would want all the other ships to see those proud colors snapping in the breeze. House flags fit into that scenario quite nicely. They are usually flown when entering or leaving harbor or meeting other ships (sort of fits the description of being in a convoy, doesn't it?) and are flown at the main masthead (from a yardarm or a gaff at the masthead) not the main peak.

If I were doing what you all are trying to do, I would try to put as much variety into it as possible, if at all possible. For instance, not all belligerent merchant ships would display their colors. Most of those that do would wear their colors at the main peak, except for ships with superstructures and/or bridges aft, which would wear them at the fantail. There has already been enough discussion of how neutral vessels should handle wearing their colors; where they do so fits into the foregoing statement.

Well, enough, again...I hope this helps rather than adding more confusion.

Thank you all again for the wonderful work you do...sink 'em all!

[Fifi]

I agree with CaptBones about his last merchants statements.
I have examples where merchants didn’t wear at all any flag, and U-Boot had to guess for their nationality.
Currently reading Peter Cremer biography, after sinking some cargos, he had to ask survivors in their lifeboats what nationality and ship name they sailed...
It even bring the terrible error when he sank a German ship coming back from china with a precious load!

I’m quite convinced some civilian ships in war time tried to hide their nationality until they crossed other boats they could trust.
But for an hidden U-Boot...

[vdr1981]

Slowly preparing new v2.2.8 update, this would be the changelog so far:

v2.2.8
- Initial loading screen updated with additional "Black screen pause" note and "Best of Subsim 2017" badge.
- Edited appearance dates of FuMB-1 Metox radar warning receiver, FuMO-29 radar and Bold1 decoys according to historical dates in single missions and campaign.
- Radar display will now show airborne contacts as well.
- Added ability to manually turn off radar at captains discretion which wasn't possible before (radar was always radiating EM energy regardless of On/Off state).
- Incorrect South African flags are now fixed, together with few more flag problems like incorrect German flag shown in the museum (info card) and missing "Free Netherlands" flags on ships.
- Soviet and New Zealand navy and civilian vessels now have correct ensigns.
- Various flags chart fixes.
- Moved flags positions to ship's stern for several ship types (Medium troop transport, London heavy cruiser, Chacal destroyer, Strasbourg battleship, Deutschland and Admiral Hipper class cruisers). More to come in future updates...
- Send weather report command from radiman's UI command menu is now functional! Use it at your own discretion but be aware that, just like a normal status report, your weather report can be intercepted and triangulated by allies.
- Better description for some TWoS optional mods and add-ons. (Campaign Advance Verifier Testing, More info)
- Edited numerous ingame texts and tool-tips for better understanding of certain GUI command functions.
- Removed some of the non-implemented and redundant GUI commands in order to avoid confusion.
- Added "Russian fonts patch" to TWoS Documentation folder with the appropriate install instructions.
- Various smaller tweaks and fixes.
- Special thanks to the latest outstanding TWoS supporters/donors who are making this expansion to keep going: Richard Roberts, David "HW3" Stevens, Ales "Kikinado" Bily, Dale Francisco, Christian "Kuddell1982" Eilmes, Yangfan Xu, Garry Dragon, Steven Reynolds and especially to Grant "CaptBones" Graeber for his enormous 100 USD donation! Thank you very much Captains! Have fun and sink 'em all!

Gamesave compatible of course...

[excel4004]

WoW! What a fantastic update is arriving soon!


Cant wait to install it and leaving port with all these nices fixes and news.


Very nice!

[CaptBones]

The additional changes you advised will be coming in v2.2.8 look very nice, please keep up the wonderful work you are doing. Without your efforts and the products from all the great modders out there, this game/sim wouldn't be worth even attempting to play.

I did want to point out one thing that I also mentioned in my 10/08 9:56 PM post. RN and KM (and probably French and Italian) warships follow...or did follow in WWII...the RN's practices WRT wearing the colors at sea. In peacetime at the fantail ensign staff (except in bad weather), but during wartime at the main peak. The corrections you've identified as coming in v2.2.8 would be a step back from "reality" in our 1940's sim world. But, I also have to say that your earlier screenshots of the "Deutschland" and "Prinz Eugen" do look much better, just because the size of the ensigns is a great improvement all by itself.

If I may, I have two questions also...

First; putting 2.67m of scope above water is much more than I would prefer under most circumstances. I'd like to make that about 1m and change the default periscope depth for all three Type VII boats to 13.5m. Do you think that changing that value in the respective Submarine folder's ".cfg" files would have any adverse effects elsewhere?

Second; I did another Historical Mission Tutorial last night and tried out the SH3 style HUD speed, course, and depth dials/controls. They look good and seemed to function well at first, but then I noticed that the speed control was not responding correctly. The EOT would only advance to one setting less than I ordered, regardless of how I ordered the change (clicking on the dial or using a hotkey). I also could not coax more than 4knots out of the boat (at periscope depth) even when ordering standard/full/flank ahead.

Any ideas or suggestions to investigate and fix that? I'll revert to the SH5 Enhanced HUD controls otherwise.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi CB
I also noticed that the SH3 GUI speed dials do not show the correct telegraph response but only when electric engines are used.

From All Stop to Slow Ahead there is no response from the telegraph.

Slow Ahead cannot be selected.

Ahead 1/3rd moves the telegraph to Ahead Slow.

Ahead Standard moves the telegraph to Ahead 1/3rd.

Ahead Full moves the telegraph to Ahead Flank.

Peter