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Old 10-06-2018, 10:33 AM   #10861
CaptBones
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Default USN Flag "etiquette"

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Originally Posted by gap View Post
Hi Fifi,

I think the flag etiquette varies slightly from country to country, and dependig if the vessel is at anchor or underway. I cannot talk about Soviet rules, but it is my understanding that as far as the Commonwealth is concerned, the correct place for flying the ensign is at any time the ensign staff at each vessel's stern. This code also applies to US vessels when they are motionless, but for practical reasons, when they are are underway they are allowed to fly their ensign from a gaff rigged on the aft mast (i.e. a slanted yard departing from them); that said, I ignore if there is a rule that prevents them from flying the ensign from their stern also while at sea.
The display of the ensign and jack on US Navy vessels is as follows:

When moored (either pierside, at a buoy, or at anchor) the ensign is flown from the fantail flagstaff and the jack at the bow jackstaff (that's why it's called the "jackstaff"). In certain circumstances (George Washington's birthday, the 4th of July and any other specially ordered "full dress ship" holiday), the ensign may be displayed at the fantail and at the main truck.

When getting underway, the colors are shifted immediately when the last mooring line is taken in from the pier, or the mooring shackle is released from the buoy, or the anchor is aweigh. Shifting colors means the jack and ensign at the fantail are lowered smartly and the "steaming" ensign is immediately hoisted, or "broken" at the main truck.

For a thorough explanation of the Royal Navy's flag etiquette, you might try the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship, Vol. I, Ch. 14 (in my 1964 edition anyway).
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:03 AM   #10862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
The display of the ensign and jack on US Navy vessels is as follows:

When moored (either pierside, at a buoy, or at anchor) the ensign is flown from the fantail flagstaff and the jack at the bow jackstaff (that's why it's called the "jackstaff"). In certain circumstances (George Washington's birthday, the 4th of July and any other specially ordered "full dress ship" holiday), the ensign may be displayed at the fantail and at the main truck.

When getting underway, the colors are shifted immediately when the last mooring line is taken in from the pier, or the mooring shackle is released from the buoy, or the anchor is aweigh. Shifting colors means the jack and ensign at the fantail are lowered smartly and the "steaming" ensign is immediately hoisted, or "broken" at the main truck.

For a thorough explanation of the Royal Navy's flag etiquette, you might try the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship, Vol. I, Ch. 14 (in my 1964 edition anyway).
Thank you for CaptBones,

your detailed explainations seem to grossly confirm what I had found so far on the topic, but I have a few questions:

- does the same rule applly to merchant as well as military vessels?

- is the information I had previously collected (i.e. hoisting the ensign to the extremity of a gaff rigged on the mainmast) a valid alternative to hoisting it to the maintruck while underway, or that was wrong?

- when required, where are broad pennants and house flags hoisted relative to the ensign?
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:37 PM   #10863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdr1981 View Post
"Silent Hunter 5\data\RadioMessages\English\19**\**\radiomessages .txt"

The Enigma Message Encryptor is in your "data\Applications" folder.

As you can see, there are quite a few messages to be encrypted, are you still sure you want to do them all?
Absolutely, at least only the Kriegsmarine traffic. Once I've done that, I'll share the work.

I noticed that at one point -- by mistake -- duplicates had been sent, i.e. the same messaged unencrypted and the Enigma ciphered message arriving together, I hope it's just a case that so long as the plaintext/unencrypted message is erased that it won't be an issue?

-- edit below --

Strewth, yup there's plenty to get through, still... I understand others wanted this, too, so I shall crack on with it.
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:57 PM   #10864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
Thank you for CaptBones,

your detailed explainations seem to grossly confirm what I had found so far on the topic, but I have a few questions:

- does the same rule applly to merchant as well as military vessels?

- is the information I had previously collected (i.e. hoisting the ensign to the extremity of a gaff rigged on the mainmast) a valid alternative to hoisting it to the maintruck while underway, or that was wrong?

- when required, where are broad pennants and house flags hoisted relative to the ensign?

Well...here's what I have observed relative to merchant vessels...

Not all have or follow any set "rules" for displaying flags at sea or in port. Most do fly the appropriate flag (either their national flag [e.g. American flag for US-registered commerical vessels] or a merchant ensign [e.g. "Red Ensign" for UK-registered commercial vessels]). When in port they display their flag at the fantail and the flag of the country whose port they are in at the main truck or a signal flag yardarm (I can't recall ever seeing one with a jack or even a jackstaff). They also typically fly a house flag at a yardarm when in port and sometimes at sea as well. The display of their ensign/national flag at sea also varies widely, some fly it from the fantail flagstaff and some from the main truck; the former seems to be more typical.

I suspect the choice is largely driven by the distance someone has to run to render honors to warships they encounter at sea. It is common courtesy for merchant ships to render honors to warships, especially if the merchant vessel is in the territorial waters of the warship it meets! Rendering honors means dipping your flag, which the warship acknowledges by dipping her flag in return. It's quite "formal"...the merhcant ship dips its flag, the warship then dips its flag and returns it to full staff, then the merchant vessel may return its flag to full staff.

As for using a gaff rigged to the mainmast...pretty much the same thing as flying it from the main truck. Sometimes a gaff is used, sometimes the top of the truck has more than one pulley and that is used (see below), sometimes for small ships that fly small size ensigns, a "pig stick" is used with the ensign attached to the stick and the stick hoisted to the gaff or the truck. The design of the mast is different from ship class to ship class and frequently from ship to ship as well, especially as they get older and have alterations applied.

Now for broad pennants and "house flags"...for USN, the most used pennant is the "coach whip" commissioning pennant. It is always flown at the highest point on the mainmast, above the ensign even. Of course, it's rather small and hardly noticeable, uness you're looking for it and know where to look (it is almost always attached to a "pig stick" and the stick hoisted to the top of the main truck). Broad pennants displayed are the identification pennants for embarked Squadron Commanders/Group Commanders. They are only flown when the Commander is "embarked", which doesn't mean physically present/onboard; their pennant will be flown from an inboard halyard on the main yardarm (therefore below the ensign when underway). When the Commander is embarked, but not onboard in port, an absentee pennant is flown from an outboard hoist on the main yardarm (Commanding Officers also get an absentee pennant when they are not onboard)...by default they will be physically above the ensign when in port, but since they are not displayed from the same mast as the ensign, they aren't really "above" the ensign.

House flags are not "official" displays in the USN, but rather flags that the crew would design and display on certain occasions. Generally they are only used when entering port...especially homeport...on return from a deployment or a "special operation"...including successful completion of most types of underway tests/trials/readiness inspections. etc.

Well, that's a small treatise...hope it clears up some of your questions.
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:58 PM   #10865
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Originally Posted by ouPhrontis View Post
I noticed that at one point -- by mistake -- duplicates had been sent, i.e. the same messaged unencrypted and the Enigma ciphered message arriving together
Can you give me the date or at least month and the year?

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Strewth, yup there's plenty to get through, still... I understand others wanted this, too, so I shall crack on with it.
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Old 10-06-2018, 04:33 PM   #10866
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Installed the new Mod with help from Vecko.

Problem is that when I enable Dark Wraith's historic dials in JGME they do not show up in the game, just that modern day nonsense I do not at all want.


I want my Telegraph, depth gauge and Compass/rudder.

Is there anyone out there who could help me get them back ?


A link to a working add on perhaps compatible with 2.2.7 ?|









I just want my old layout back. So any help more than welcome !

Do I have to change a setting in OFEV ?


Ashikaga



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Old 10-06-2018, 05:50 PM   #10867
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Hi A
Quote:
Do I have to change a setting in OFEV ?
Yes


Peter
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:30 PM   #10868
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Originally Posted by vdr1981 View Post
Can you give me the date or at least month and the year?


It's 1939, I have the career still running, so will go back through and check.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:37 PM   #10869
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VIELEN DANK!!!!
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:00 AM   #10870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
Well...here's what I have observed relative to merchant vessels...

Not all have or follow any set "rules" for displaying flags at sea or in port. Most do fly the appropriate flag (either their national flag [e.g. American flag for US-registered commerical vessels] or a merchant ensign [e.g. "Red Ensign" for UK-registered commercial vessels]). When in port they display their flag at the fantail and the flag of the country whose port they are in at the main truck or a signal flag yardarm (I can't recall ever seeing one with a jack or even a jackstaff). [...] The display of their ensign/national flag at sea also varies widely, some fly it from the fantail flagstaff and some from the main truck; the former seems to be more typical.

[...]

As for using a gaff rigged to the mainmast...pretty much the same thing as flying it from the main truck. Sometimes a gaff is used, sometimes the top of the truck has more than one pulley and that is used (see below), sometimes for small ships that fly small size ensigns, a "pig stick" is used with the ensign attached to the stick and the stick hoisted to the gaff or the truck. The design of the mast is different from ship class to ship class and frequently from ship to ship as well, especially as they get older and have alterations applied.
Thank you very much for your replies. What I get from the text above is that commercial vessels are lesser bound to etiquette than naval ones, but though with a certein degree of flexibility relative to the actual hoisting point (stern fantail, signal flag yardam, mainmast gaff or truck), the ensign / national flag is alway to be found in the aft part of the ship and it is never flown from the foremast (when present). Are my conclusions correct?

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They also typically fly a house flag at a yardarm when in port and sometimes at sea as well.
So a yardam (at the mainmast I suppose), is the right spot for house flag hoisting. Does port/starboard make any difference in this case?

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House flags are not "official" displays in the USN, but rather flags that the crew would design and display on certain occasions. Generally they are only used when entering port...especially homeport...on return from a deployment or a "special operation"...including successful completion of most types of underway tests/trials/readiness inspections. etc.
I am especially interested in house flags because in the Flags of the World website I found drawings of the flags used by many SS companies during the 30s-40s, and many pictures of real (used) flags at the website of the National Maritime Museum of Greenwich (they belong mostly to British shipping companies, but there are also flags from other parts of the world).
I think that adding house flags to in-game ships would be nice for creating more variety and for easing the ship identification, but I am not sure that in real wartime practice, allied ships in convoys would have flown those flags especially in open seas. I know that at some point of the war most shipping companies dispensed with their distinctive colors, funnel markings, and anything else could identify them (including house flags probably), but what I have read in several modeller forums, this process was not as universal and as quick as one might think. I would be curiois to know your opinion on this respect too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
I suspect the choice is largely driven by the distance someone has to run to render honors to warships they encounter at sea. It is common courtesy for merchant ships to render honors to warships, especially if the merchant vessel is in the territorial waters of the warship it meets! Rendering honors means dipping your flag, which the warship acknowledges by dipping her flag in return. It's quite "formal"...the merhcant ship dips its flag, the warship then dips its flag and returns it to full staff, then the merchant vessel may return its flag to full staff.
Yes, I knew that already. Nice tradition, but unfortunately this is not something we can simulate in game.

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Now for broad pennants and "house flags"...for USN, the most used pennant is the "coach whip" commissioning pennant. It is always flown at the highest point on the mainmast, above the ensign even. Of course, it's rather small and hardly noticeable, uness you're looking for it and know where to look (it is almost always attached to a "pig stick" and the stick hoisted to the top of the main truck). Broad pennants displayed are the identification pennants for embarked Squadron Commanders/Group Commanders. They are only flown when the Commander is "embarked", which doesn't mean physically present/onboard; their pennant will be flown from an inboard halyard on the main yardarm (therefore below the ensign when underway). When the Commander is embarked, but not onboard in port, an absentee pennant is flown from an outboard hoist on the main yardarm (Commanding Officers also get an absentee pennant when they are not onboard)...by default they will be physically above the ensign when in port, but since they are not displayed from the same mast as the ensign, they aren't really "above" the ensign.
Okay, that's clear. Commissioning pennants too are something I have had in mind for a long time, but at the moment I am more interested in broad pennants flown aboard Commodore / Escort Commander ships in convoys. In game, as in reality, those ships have a special role / behaviour / position within the convoy, and I think it would be nice and useful being able to identify them during convoy battles.

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Well, that's a small treatise...hope it clears up some of your questions.
Definitely yes, thanks again for taking the time to answer in such a detail my (silly) questions
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:50 PM   #10871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
Thank you very much for your replies. What I get from the text above is that commercial vessels are lesser bound to etiquette than naval ones, but though with a certein degree of flexibility relative to the actual hoisting point (stern fantail, signal flag yardam, mainmast gaff or truck), the ensign / national flag is alway to be found in the aft part of the ship and it is never flown from the foremast (when present). Are my conclusions correct?

Essentially "yes"...but in a ship with the primary superstructure and bridge amidships, the national flag/ensign is almost as likely to be displayed at sea from the mainmast. Tankers and bulk carriers are frequently the exception; they generally have a large superstructure aft with crew's quarters and it's not a long walk to the fantail, so the flag/ensign might be flown there when at sea. Again, just as often a matter of the Master's choice and convenience and I don't think either placement would be "wrong" for the sim. Most commercial vessels don't have a "foremast" per se; they typically have Kingposts, goal-post cranes and jib-crane poles or even just a seperate pole/mast for mounting the masthead light (the range light being on the mainmast).

So a yardam (at the mainmast I suppose), is the right spot for house flag hoisting. Does port/starboard make any difference in this case?

Well, the starboard yardarm is the "senior" position for any flags/pennants displayed. I'd suspect that would be where a proud crew would choose to fly their house flag.

I am especially interested in house flags because in the Flags of the World website I found drawings of the flags used by many SS companies during the 30s-40s, and many pictures of real (used) flags at the website of the National Maritime Museum of Greenwich (they belong mostly to British shipping companies, but there are also flags from other parts of the world).
I think that adding house flags to in-game ships would be nice for creating more variety and for easing the ship identification, but I am not sure that in real wartime practice, allied ships in convoys would have flown those flags especially in open seas. I know that at some point of the war most shipping companies dispensed with their distinctive colors, funnel markings, and anything else could identify them (including house flags probably), but what I have read in several modeller forums, this process was not as universal and as quick as one might think. I would be curiois to know your opinion on this respect too.

In wartime it is generally a good idea to make it as hard as possible for your enemy to find or identify you. Now, if you're a neutral vessel and you think that both/all warring sides are going to respect International Law as well as each other's, and their own, Prize Regulations, I suspect you would at least try initially to make yourself as readily identifiable as possible. Once that quaint romantic notion of "civilized" warfare wears off...it's out come the paint cans and down come the flags...be as unidentifiable as you can for as long as you can. Plus, in convoy, you do not want any "miscellaneous" flags flying that could possibly be mistaken for a signal in the air...signal flags and flashing lights are the primary and sometimes only allowed means of communication in the convoy.

Yes, I knew that already. Nice tradition, but unfortunately this is not something we can simulate in game.

Yeah, not at all practical in a wartime convoy either.

Okay, that's clear. Commissioning pennants too are something I have had in mind for a long time, but at the moment I am more interested in broad pennants flown aboard Commodore / Escort Commander ships in convoys. In game, as in reality, those ships have a special role / behaviour / position within the convoy, and I think it would be nice and useful being able to identify them during convoy battles.

Yeah...great idea! To be clear...a USN Broad pennant is the personal command pennant of an officer, not a Flag Officer, in command of a Division of BB's, CV's or CA's/CL's or a designated Force, Flotilla/Group, or Squadron of ships or craft of any type (which would include a convoy itself and the ships in a convoy escort force, although the escort commander could be flying a Burgee pennant instead). A Burgee pennant indicates command of a Division of ships or craft other than BB's, CV's or CA's/CL's. Flag Officers obviously display their personal flag in their flagship, when in command of any group of ships. If a ship of that type were escorting a convoy, you would possibly see a Flag Officer's personal flag displayed.

In the USN, Broad pennants are white swallow-tail shaped with dark blue stripes along the top and bottom of the fly (same as the Flotilla pennant in the RN, but the blue is darker); Burgee pennants are narrower swallow-tail shaped and have red stripes along the top and bottom fly (not equivalent to the RN Division pennant). The use of Roman numerals and Arabic numerals is specific, but probably too much so for this discussion (or use in the sim).

In the RN, the Flotilla pennant is white, swallow-tail shaped with light blue stripes along the top and bottom of the fly. The Squadron pennant is squared with colored quadrants; light blue in the upper-left, yellow in the upper-right, red in the lower-right, and white in the lower-left (as viewed with the hoist to the left). Division pennant is squared with horizontal stripes; red, white, blue, and yellow, from top to bottom. If the convoy commander (not the escort commander) is RN, he might even display a RFA Commodore's pennant; dark-blue swallow-tail with a "gold" anchor in the middle, surrounded by a circle of "gold" line (rope, to the landlubbers out there).

Definitely yes, thanks again for taking the time to answer in such a detail my (silly) questions
There are no silly questions...sometimes silly answers though.
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:07 PM   #10872
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Two questions for you guys. First...

Has anyone used these "functions" ever? Do they work at all?



...and second, has anyone ever experienced intense sound glitch which can sometimes be heard while your sub is damaged and under depth charge attack? The glitch can last for 15-20 seconds...Is it just me?

Thanks...
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:43 AM   #10873
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Never used those buttons, cause never noticed them!
But could try soon...

No, never had this sound glitch when damaged or under depth charge.
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:59 AM   #10874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdr1981 View Post
Two questions for you guys. First...

Has anyone used these "functions" ever? Do they work at all?



...and second, has anyone ever experienced intense sound glitch which can sometimes be heard while your sub is damaged and under depth charge attack? The glitch can last for 15-20 seconds...Is it just me?

Thanks...


Just some online tonnage board, doesn't interest me at all.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:55 AM   #10875
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So capt log buttons aren’t working here. Probably because my PC is internet disconnected.

Ouphrontis, are you internet connected when playing?
I can’t see what is written on your picture, is it other players?
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