SES Jutland preview at Armchair General

[CCIP]

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/jutla...me-preview.htm

Just a heads-up on more info about the promising title

[Raptor1]

Argh, I can't stand reading this preview, I want the game now

[Zakalwe]

Sounds good!

Z.

PS.: Raptor, you have a nice sig pic there. What does it show? Any source for a bigger version?

[GlobalExplorer]

Intriguing .. Now if there wasn't this DRM thing. I heard for many people Distant Guns just stopped working after some time, and that support is nil.

On the other hand, there can't be enough of this type of games.

I'l be honest, I doin't know much about the game but it doesn't look that interesting, I dunno.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Intriguing .. Now if there wasn't this DRM thing. I heard for many people Distant Guns just stopped working after some time, and that support is nil.

Totally untrue in my case (might be for some, I don't know). I once had a problem with a game glitch, and both of the main devs (Jim and Norm) responded, took my savegame and fixed it, and incorporated the fix into the next patch. I've also had to reinstall the game the game on different computers twice after said computers died (so I couldn't release the license key from inside the game), and had to email support to release my license key for re-registration. Had it released within 24 hours on both occasions. I'd give SES very high marks for support, myself.

The DRM isn't as bad as many people say, I don't know why there's such a fuss over it. It IS very restricting (in the sense of 1 license - 1 computer), but it's not invasive (i.e. doesn't install crap on your system like Starforce or Securom - it's all internal to the game exe). However as long as you don't try to install it on more than one machine, it works pretty smoothly. Had it on my HD (or 3 different HDs, more accurately) for over 2 years now. There is also the auto-patching system, and literally dozens of patches were released for DG, all of them seamlessly installing on game start when connected to the net.

And I mean, there should be at least a bit of sympathy for the SES position. The game comes with a demo that is basically the unlockable full version - which lets you see exactly how the full game will look and play on your system. DG is delivered as a .zip file that's just over 200mb in size. Imagine how easily that would go around if there wasn't a solid lock on it. The devs want to maintain a high price level on the game, which is understandable because the game is very niche and wouldn't make any money otherwise.

I was hoping they'd relax the activation restrictions on it a little and come down to something closer to a basic CD-key protection, but as far as I can tell it'll remain the way it is - 1 activation per game, but the activation can be either released manually from the game, or reset by support if needed. You don't have to be online to play the game, it only asks for activation during install. So, the game is basically activationware, but it hasn't affected me much. I consider it (and the $60 pricetag) a small price to pay for 2 years of good gaming so far. It's been worth it to me, but I wouldn't run around saying it'd be worth it for absolutely everyone. So, if not sure: read reviews, and try the demo. If you like what you see, by all means get it, don't be afraid of the big bad DRM. It's not big, and it's only very slightly bad.

[Raptor1]

I wouldn't care much about the copy-protection, you don't see many Naval games as it is and when you do it's usually either about the Age of Sail or World War II

@Zakalwe, my sig is a painting of the Grand Fleet at the Battle of Jutland, I'll try to find you a bigger version

[CaptHawkeye]

I'm happy indy Naval Sims are finally looking as good as Silent Hunter 3 did years ago. I kind of consider SH3 my *minimum* of current graphics in a sim. I'm a picky bastard, but what can I say? I played Destroyer Command a few months ago and really just couldn't stomach the soap box ships.

[TarJak]

Defintately looks worth checking out.

[RedChico]

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Intriguing .. Now if there wasn't this DRM thing. I heard for many people Distant Guns just stopped working after some time, and that support is nil.

On the other hand, there can't be enough of this type of games.

The problem wasn't the null support, it was the "not documented support".
I didn't buy the game for a small but important reasons and that DRM didn't help alot.

On a personal note, ppl forget that it's a "naval wargame of a simulation" :p and not a "pure naval simulation".
And as we can see down bellow on the forums there's (was?) a very fine project for a naval simulator.
Perhaps someday ........ :hmm:

[CaptHawkeye]

Man, I been reading about the game and it's cool. Detailed damage modeling for non-critical ship systems too? Grand strategy? 900+ ship models? If it has first person "bridge" cameras it'll be gauranteed awesome.

[Task Force]

I want this game, I cant wait for them to release it.

[jdkbph]

I am one of those "some" who have had problems.

The DRM concern is two-fold:

The first is related to the SES EULA, the legality of which is suspect in any case. Although it's not really an issue for me personally, others have complained that the DRM, which effectively enforces the EULA, prevents them from reselling or otherwise transferring the rights to install and play the game to anyone else.

The second, and most significant in a practical sense, has to do with the fact that any number of small, silly and/or seemingly unrelated type things you might do or have happen to your computer will cause the DRM in Distant Guns to think you're a pirate and de-activate the game.

Sure, if you know what those things are (SES won't tell you what they are), and can plan for it in advance, and you have internet connectivity at the time, you can use their built in "de-license" tool to transfer the license back to the SES server, then re-activate it from the SES server once you complete whatever you were doing.

But if you run into something unplanned (like a hard drive crash) or unexpected (like a simple CPU R&R) or do something you would not expect to affect the DRM (such as use Windows compatibility mode to troubleshoot a graphics or memory issue), it breaks on you, and you have no way to get it working again... other than by writing to SES and asking them for help.

This has happened to me twice. The first time it took about a week - and the kind intervention of a 3rd party forum moderator with contacts - for SES to get me working again. The second time it took about 4 days for them to respond, and only after I complained about the situation on a public forum... which resulted in me being flamed, abused and accused of all sorts of things, from rabble rousing to outright lying to attempted piracy, by the head guy at SES (Jim Rose, aka L'Empereur).

And I am not the only one this has happened to. Search the technical issues section on the GameSquad DG forum, or peruse the wargames usenet groups and you'll find many instances of other people experiencing the same DRM related issues, and the same kind of treatment.

Yet, after all this SES still defends and proudly justifies their DRM by claiming they've thwarted hundreds of piracy attempts. Their position, as stated by Mssr. L'Empereur, is that it's just too bad and something we legitimate users will have to learn to live with as long as there are pirates out there who might be trying to steal their game.

Oh, and BTW... you might find their position on the reselling or re-assignment question interesting as well. SES holds that your $70 USD investment does not confer any rights of ownership, but only a license which entitles the original buyer (and no one else) to play their game.

So very M$ like... wouldn't you say?

Bottom line:

- SES' home brewed DRM in Distant Guns sucks because it inconveniences legitimate users.

- Given a well documented history of DRM issues, SES' support for users experiencing a DRM "false positive" is not consistent, and too often inadequate and/or not timely.

If SES uses the same DRM system in Jutland?... as much as I'm a big fan of naval history and wargaming going back 40 years, I'm out.

JD

[Herman]

Originally Posted by jdkbph

This has happened to me twice. The first time it took about a week - and the kind intervention of a 3rd party forum moderator with contacts - for SES to get me working again. The second time it took about 4 days for them to respond, and only after I complained about the situation on a public forum... which resulted in me being flamed, abused and accused of all sorts of things, from rabble rousing to outright lying to attempted piracy, by the head guy at SES (Jim Rose, aka L'Empereur).

And I am not the only one this has happened to. Search the technical issues section on the GameSquad DG forum, or peruse the wargames usenet groups and you'll find many instances of other people experiencing the same DRM related issues, and the same kind of treatment.

[snip]

- Given a well documented history of DRM issues, SES' support for users experiencing a DRM "false positive" is not consistent, and too often inadequate and/or not timely.

Must be something like this latest episode.

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/show...1&postcount=18

[jdkbph]

Seriously... read the thread titled Help! Reauthorize me please .

It's a truly pathetic display. Unfortunately one of many on that forum.

JD