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Old 02-10-23, 07:22 PM   #1
maillemaker
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Default Game is a lot harder with no map contacts!

My first attempt at a full-war survival with SH5. Made it to mid 1941. Turned right into a depth charge run.


I played that first run with external camera on and map contacts.


I have restarted with no external camera and no map contact updates.


Man, it is a lot harder! Just plotting an intercept in the general direction can be hard!


With map contacts on you can pretty much dial in exact courses and speeds and drive your sub on a perfect intercept or end-around maneuver. Super easy to get torpedo hits at even 5,000 meter ranges because your inputs are so precise.


Now, hits at even a few thousand meters are hard enough that I find myself using 2 torpedoes per ship no matter what. Between duds and misses if you want to take them down with torpedoes you better use 2 to be sure.


And of course my tonnage numbers are way down. I think the first go-around I had sunk over a million tons of shipping myself!
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Old 02-11-23, 01:30 AM   #2
les green01
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welcome to the club shooting wise i do the old don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes 1200 meters max early war although i did do a 5k shot on a carrier about to get away early war i do a lot of deckgun if i can get away with it most of my tactics what they use in real life
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Old 02-11-23, 10:31 AM   #3
kapuhy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maillemaker View Post
And of course my tonnage numbers are way down. I think the first go-around I had sunk over a million tons of shipping myself!
That's why I instantly fell in love with Real Navigation - not knowing either my own or enemy's exact position brings my game character down from "Need ideas for a few new variants of Knight's Cross, ASAP" to be on par with historical captains.
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Old 02-11-23, 01:17 PM   #4
maillemaker
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Quote:
i do a lot of deckgun if i can get away with it

Yeah, early war the deck gun is a great way to rack up tonnage.


Quote:
That's why I instantly fell in love with Real Navigation - not knowing either my own or enemy's exact position brings my game character down from "Need ideas for a few new variants of Knight's Cross, ASAP" to be on par with historical captains.

I have done real nav, but it doesn't appeal to me. I am interested in the macro of setting up and executing attacks. Once or two times manually driving the sub into our out of port is about all I need to experience.
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Old 02-11-23, 04:41 PM   #5
Threadfin
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No external cameras is the best way to play sub sims, so you've got that right. Commanding the boat becomes a whole new challenge when all your information comes from your point of view. And when you submerge, you have no real knowledge about what's happening topside, just like it should be.

Firing salvos is also the right way to go, so I agree with this too.

However turning map contacts off is a step over the line for me, and this is why. WW2 subs had a tracking party that ran the plot. As the solo human in your sim boat you do not have this. In real subs, the plot is continually updated based on a number of data points. Stadimeter readings, sonar ranges, radar ranges and so on.

The accuracy of this plot is constantly checked against what the TDC is showing. When they match, the crew has high confidence of a good solution. When they don't, they endeavor to determine why, but will know that one or the other (or even both) are currently inaccurate. A failsafe.

The issue we struggle with in Silent Hunter is the unerring accuracy of the map contacts. It is always right. What we need are map contacts that are not infallible, where the accuracy of the plot is based on duration, number of data points and crew veterancy. The chance for the plot to have errors.

So the question is one of a perfect plot, simulating the work your officers do on an approach, versus the too-perfect way it is implemented in these submarine sims.

For me, turning it off is actually the less preferable of the two options. Of course I'd like it to fall in the middle, map contacts with possible error. But not having it at all is like making your approach with only the skipper on duty. It handicaps you more than the perfect map contacts help you.

But of course it all comes down to the player's preferences, and these settings do indeed challenge your skills. But no contacts is a bit too far, in my view.
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Old 02-12-23, 02:24 PM   #6
maillemaker
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With map contacts on, it becomes trivial to set up firing solutions. You can get exact speeds and courses.


With contacts off, it's up to you to plot the solution. The only help we get is the WO giving us an estimate in range. I find this estimate is to nerfed in TWOS - I need to find out how to go adjust his estimates to be more accurate. At least until I get better at estimating range myself.


The game is vastly more challenging when you have to figure out all the target input data yourself.
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