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Old 07-23-13, 07:48 PM   #61
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It would depend on the situation urban or an inclosed wooded/planted area like a "green zone" in Afghanistan I'd want an M-4 with a holographic site with the special sight enhancers that you can flip up for longer ranges (in combat your suppression capability is most important) and I'd want an M203 or ideally an M320 I have seen clips of guys really laying it down with an M320 and a few SAWs they help break contact very effectively.

In a more open area or if I am inside the wire an M-14 would be better because they usually attack from longer range and the M-14 would be in its element.

Of course all things considered any firearm is better than none if you find yourself facing unfriendly persons possessing them.

In an on your own situation any AR-15 based weapon gets a ding do to the extra TLC that it will need so really then something else would be better.
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Old 07-23-13, 07:57 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealhead View Post
In an on your own situation any AR-15 based weapon gets a ding do to the extra TLC that it will need so really then something else would be better.
The first thing that jumps into my mind is, piston vs direct impingement. It probably won't be a big surprise if i said I prefer a piston.
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Old 07-23-13, 09:02 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Stealhead View Post
It would depend on the situation urban or an inclosed wooded/planted area like a "green zone" in Afghanistan I'd want an M-4 with a holographic site with the special sight enhancers that you can flip up for longer ranges (in combat your suppression capability is most important) and I'd want an M203 or ideally an M320 I have seen clips of guys really laying it down with an M320 and a few SAWs they help break contact very effectively.

In a more open area or if I am inside the wire an M-14 would be better because they usually attack from longer range and the M-14 would be in its element.

Of course all things considered any firearm is better than none if you find yourself facing unfriendly persons possessing them.

In an on your own situation any AR-15 based weapon gets a ding do to the extra TLC that it will need so really then something else would be better.

+1

It really depends on the situation you are in.
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Old 07-25-13, 11:53 PM   #64
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Interesting tidbit of firearms related information I found out today.

Although Colt AR-15's are marked as a .223 on the lower receiver all their barrels are actually chambered for 5.56mm. This means I don't have to do anything to shoot both ammo sizes. Yay!

This only applies to Colt manufactured AR's BTW. Other makes YMMV.
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Old 07-25-13, 11:59 PM   #65
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I had heard that before...but wasn't sure if it was confirmed or not.
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Old 07-26-13, 11:51 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by August View Post
Interesting tidbit of firearms related information I found out today.

Although Colt AR-15's are marked as a .223 on the lower receiver all their barrels are actually chambered for 5.56mm. This means I don't have to do anything to shoot both ammo sizes. Yay!
I'm glad you posted this. I'm in the same boat, having an Colt AR-15 HBAR purchased shortly before the AW ban was passed. I was wondering what could have possibly possessed Colt to manufacture a paramilitary rifle complete with bayonet lug, flash suppressor, heavy chrome lined barrel, etc., but that could not use military surplus ammunition. They would have to have manufactured it on different tooling, no less. My faith in Colt is restored!



Ducimus, you obviously have good taste in rifles.



My main rifle is the AR-15. The principle reasons I bought it were lower cost of ammunition vs. 7.62mm and ability to fire .22LR with conversion devices. Most of my shooting with it has been with .22LR, in fact.

If I lived out where I could blast away freely (and had the dough), I would undoubtedly get a

M-1 Garand

"the greatest battle implement ever devised".




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Old 07-27-13, 12:52 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorpX View Post
I'm glad you posted this. I'm in the same boat, having an Colt AR-15 HBAR purchased shortly before the AW ban was passed. I was wondering what could have possibly possessed Colt to manufacture a paramilitary rifle complete with bayonet lug, flash suppressor, heavy chrome lined barrel, etc., but that could not use military surplus ammunition. They would have to have manufactured it on different tooling, no less. My faith in Colt is restored


Just to be sure check the top of the barrel between the front sight post and the flash suppressor. There should be an inscription that should say:

C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 HBAR

If you got that you are all set to use either .223 or 5.56
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Old 07-27-13, 01:20 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by TorpX View Post
If I lived out where I could blast away freely (and had the dough), I would undoubtedly get a

M-1 Garand

"the greatest battle implement ever devised".




800$ at my local gun shop.

They're very nice rifles. My friend's Dad has one and he's been telling me for 2 years now that we're going to go shooting...but he has work all the time...being a cop and all...
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Old 07-27-13, 02:56 PM   #69
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800$ at my local gun shop.

They're very nice rifles. My friend's Dad has one and he's been telling me for 2 years now that we're going to go shooting...but he has work all the time...being a cop and all...

They should be a lot cheaper they only made several million of them but everyone wants the M1 Garand (never was that interested myself in them).

I do have an SVT-40 just as good of a weapon actually better having a better magazine which was the biggest drawback of the M1 and not because of the ping and the myth that US troops got killed when the ping was heard.As if you would even hear that in the heat of combat if you where stupid enough to expose yourself when you heard the ping anyway you would get shot by everyone else that still had rounds left.In combat your enemy tries to get on your flanks whilst you are distracted and then kills you the condition of your weapons has little effect on this tactic because he should not know that you are flanking him until you engage at which point he is overwhelmed unless he has outstanding NCOs and tact and has a lot of luck.

The 8 rounder of the M1 did make topping off very tricky because you had to prop the rifle on your leg and use both hands to hold the bolt open and and bullets while also holding the the clip in the magazine.The US Army combat manual actually advised that when preparing for an assault or when needing to have a fresh magazine in the M1 the user was to fire off the remaining rounds in the magazine until the clip was ejected and then load another 8 round clip into the magazine.I think that entire feature was John Garands little bit of engineering that he thought was unique (which it was) and he clung to that feeling it was ideal and not really thinking about some of the impracticality in the field that such a design can bring up.

Last edited by Stealhead; 07-27-13 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 07-27-13, 03:05 PM   #70
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Thye should be a lot cheaper they only made several million of them but everyone wants the M1 Garand (never was that interested myself in them).

I do have an SVT-40 just as good of a weapon actually better having a better magazine which was the biggest drawback of the M1 and not because of the ping and the myth that US troops got killed when the ping was heard.
As if you would even hear that in the heat of combat if you where stupid enough to expose yourself when you heard the ping anyway you would get shot by everyone else that still had rounds left.
That was always my thought.

Why would you hear that in a heated firefight? War is hell...but War is also loud as hell.

If it wasn't so intense...You might be able to hear it.

Another military channel show had a Weapons Collector and Historian talking on there about how the US Soldiers would throw empty clips against something hard and the enemy would jump up thinking the American was out of ammo.

They're beautiful rifles though. I'd love to have one.
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Old 07-27-13, 04:25 PM   #71
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I have heard that claim about throwing the empty clips as well and it also sounds like BS so the sound of a bit of metal getting tossed is supposed to sound like a clip getting popped out of a chamber under many pounds of spring force right.

Don't get me wrong the M1 Garand was good weapon it just was not the masterpiece better than everyone else weapon people make it out to be.Weapons are one thing but in war many other factors are important and the best weapon do not always win.The side with the best logistics and the best trained troops the best NCOs and the most well trained officers will win.Your brain is the ultimate weapon team work is the ultimate weapon.
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Old 07-27-13, 10:14 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by August View Post
Just to be sure check the top of the barrel between the front sight post and the flash suppressor. There should be an inscription that should say:

C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 HBAR

If you got that you are all set to use either .223 or 5.56
Yup, it's there. Thank-you!

Quote:
The 8 rounder of the M1 did make topping off very tricky because you had to prop the rifle on your leg and use both hands to hold the bolt open and and bullets while also holding the the clip in the magazine.The US Army combat manual actually advised that when preparing for an assault or when needing to have a fresh magazine in the M1 the user was to fire off the remaining rounds in the magazine until the clip was ejected and then load another 8 round clip into the magazine.I think that entire feature was John Garands little bit of engineering that he thought was unique (which it was) and he clung to that feeling it was ideal and not really thinking about some of the impracticality in the field that such a design can bring up.
I know the 8rd. clip has been much criticized, but I think these criticisms have been overblown. Yes, topping off a M-1 takes longer, than with a Mauser, Arisaka, or Springfield, but gives you a faster reload, not to mention 3 extra rounds. Also, the en-bloc clip is a very efficient way to carry ammunition. The clips add very little in weight or bulk; much less than with box magazines. Also, the magazine is in the rifle, where it is unlikely to suffer damage. External magazines get bumped and bruised; sometimes reliability suffers. The Johnson system is not a bad idea, but I would still pick the M-1 for the fast reloading.

Here is a little bit of firearms history many may not know. The M-1 Garand was originally approved for adoption in .276 Pedersen caliber. It was selected over the Pedersen Rifle in the same caliber. Then, the Army Chief of Staff, General MacArthur, disapproved the report, stating there would be no change in the service cartridge. John C. Garand had to hastily redesign the rifle in .30 caliber. The .276 Garand had a 10 round capacity and was lighter. It met all Army requirements and only had about 60 parts, fewer than the Springfield '03. I kind of think the .276 Garand would have been an even better service rifle.
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Old 07-27-13, 11:34 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Stealhead View Post
I have heard that claim about throwing the empty clips as well and it also sounds like BS so the sound of a bit of metal getting tossed is supposed to sound like a clip getting popped out of a chamber under many pounds of spring force right.
Agree.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong the M1 Garand was good weapon it just was not the masterpiece better than everyone else weapon people make it out to be.Weapons are one thing but in war many other factors are important and the best weapon do not always win.The side with the best logistics and the best trained troops the best NCOs and the most well trained officers will win.Your brain is the ultimate weapon team work is the ultimate weapon.
Looking at the specs...we fought against the Arisaka and the Karabiner....and the M1 takes the cake for me. I think it's vastly superior to each of the enemy's rifles.

Now the German Gewehr 43 was a semiautomatic rifle that held 10 rounds. I'm not sure on the specs of that one...but I see it as a contender against the M1...even though it wasn't the standard service rifle.

A semiauto .30-06 that holds 8 rounds easily beats the other two bolt rifles in firing rate and capacity.

The only thing that I see where the M1 might suffer is range and accuracy. With a bolt action rifle, the chamber has a better seal and doesn't have to use extra gas to cycle the bolt. All the gas is behind the round.

I'd need to do a little research first though. Don't have the time.

Looking at it with no research and just knowledge...I see the M1 being best of the rifles during the War.
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Old 07-27-13, 11:58 PM   #74
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I know the 8rd. clip has been much criticized, but I think these criticisms have been overblown. Yes, topping off a M-1 takes longer, than with a Mauser, Arisaka, or Springfield, but gives you a faster reload,



Quote:
Originally Posted by TorpX View Post
I know the 8rd. clip has been much criticized, but I think these criticisms have been overblown. Yes, topping off a M-1 takes longer, than with a Mauser, Arisaka, or Springfield, but gives you a faster reload, not to mention 3 extra rounds.
I quoted the part that I disagree with.

See that is the biggest drawback of the M1 Garand is that under combat conditions you can't top it off easily your stuck with the rounds left in the current mag or as the already stated the Army manual advised your stuck firing off the remaining rounds until ping and then using a fresh clip.

I think that they amount to somethign becuase the 8 round capacity and quirky topping off where the two major complaints from soldiers and Marines using the M1 in combat.They started experimenting with an external magazine for the M1 Garand towards the end of WWII that ultimately led to the M-14.

Furthermore any bolt action rifle Kar98,Type99,SMLE what ever they all used stripper clips as well and you you just pressed the rounds out of the clip into the magazine the same exact process as the M1 Garand nearly to the T except the clip stay with the Garand so how that can be any faster than any other clip loading to me does not add up.

I think you are misunderstanding me here a little i am not in anyway saying that Garand was a bad rifle by any means only that it did have drawbacks.I am not in any way trying to say that it does not have a fire advantage over a bolt action rifle of course it does and that was its great advantage.


Kar98 reload for strip some relaxed loading



M1 reload also a bit relaxed at any rate either could be done very quickly and i do not see how either can be much faster or slower than the other.



@Red the G43 used the standard rifle cartridge used by the German military 7.62x57mm Mauser it was a fairly decent rifle of course it is a bit heavier than the M1 Garand its biggest draw back would be simply low production numbers.

Do not forget Red that the M1 Garand never fully replaced the M1903 during the war in fact our first major battle in the Pacific at Guadal Canal the Marines there did not yet have the M1 Garand the Army troops relived them after several months of fighting did.Just like the M-16 20 years later some soldiers did not like the M1 and preferred the M1903.

You can have excellent accuracy with an M1 Garnad at any range where using open sights is a feasibility.They did make sniper versions as well but the M1903A4 was vastly preferred because at those ranges it was more accurate than the M1Garand C/D.One reason the C/D sniper Garands where disliked was because they had a scope mounted to the side which meant that it was not easy to bore sight and that is not something that snipers like very much.
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Old 07-28-13, 12:47 AM   #75
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@Red the G43 used the standard rifle cartridge used by the German military 7.62x57mm Mauser it was a fairly decent rifle of course it is a bit heavier than the M1 Garand its biggest draw back would be simply low production numbers.

Do not forget Red that the M1 Garand never fully replaced the M1903 during the war in fact our first major battle in the Pacific at Guadal Canal the Marines there did not yet have the M1 Garand the Army troops relived them after several months of fighting did.Just like the M-16 20 years later some soldiers did not like the M1 and preferred the M1903.

You can have excellent accuracy with an M1 Garnad at any range where using open sights is a feasibility.They did make sniper versions as well but the M1903A4 was vastly preferred because at those ranges it was more accurate than the M1Garand C/D.One reason the C/D sniper Garands where disliked was because they had a scope mounted to the side which meant that it was not easy to bore sight and that is not something that snipers like very much.
The G43 shot the standard cartridge...but was not the standard rifle.

And the M1 Sniper versions...they just annoy me. Garands aren't meant for that.
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