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Old 03-05-2020, 02:57 AM   #31
Boris-Barboris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ildifa View Post
Hi!

I am a longtime fan of your "AtmosphereAutopilot" mod for Kerbal Space Program, so when I first saw that this little submarine game was made by you, I was sure it was gonna be great

I think you had a great idea making DSubs more fast-paced than the usual sim, every round I played was always exciting!
My congratulations (and hopes to see it grow) to you
To show my appreciation, I made an icon for DSubs in the same minimalist art style, hope you like it:
 



P.S.: Is it possible to sometime hear music on the hydrophone, or am I hallucinating things?

Thank you. Very impressive torp dodges on March the 2nd, Ildifa, and yes, there is a music thing. Just wanted an easter egg of sorts to swim around.

I'll try to include the icon in the binary, looks sharp and fitting, though I'll probably tune the color if you don't mind. Well, at least until the title changes for some reason, but that will not come soon.
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Old 03-07-2020, 01:14 PM   #32
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This will sound like a stupid question (because it is) but any VR planned for this?..

lol ok, I am actually being kind of serious :P. let me explain, back in subcommand/cold waters days I found the external views ridiculous, as pretty as they could be (which they werent.. at all) and never used them, so yeah, pretty much sensors, maps and targetting solutions made the game for me.

But that doesn't mean I don't like cool 3d graphics, on the contrary, graphic realism improves immersive gameplay by a lot, at least for me. The only game I play nowadays is DCS in VR. for anyone that hasn't tried that yet, you're in for a treat. There's no point going back, just doesn't make sense to me.

So I would love to have a subsim game (or space game for that matter, pretty much the same thing I guess) that would recreate the inside of a real or fictional ship with high fidelity with battle station consoles, sensor stations, engineering, weapons etc. in a "non-condescending" way, without fisher-price style interfaces and game mechanics.

Does that make sense to anyone?.. I'm not talking about the work that would require which would be considerable of course but I think this could maybe be of interest to a greater public that you might think. DCS can be very technical and you do have a decent amount of people playing it.

You say the game core is what matters, the bells and whistles can come later. Couldn't agree with you more, how difficult would it be to "attach" those screens you have been coding to an actual 3d model? using unreal or unity there are pretty amazing and smart things that can be made..

Anyway, don't hate me for this comment. I just found this post a few days ago for the first time and really love the idea and game. Great job man, hope you keep at it.
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Old 03-07-2020, 01:46 PM   #33
Boris-Barboris
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Originally Posted by ottoatom View Post
This will sound like a stupid question (because it is) but any VR planned for this?..

lol ok, I am actually being kind of serious :P. let me explain, back in subcommand/cold waters days I found the external views ridiculous, as pretty as they could be (which they werent.. at all) and never used them, so yeah, pretty much sensors, maps and targetting solutions made the game for me.

But that doesn't mean I don't like cool 3d graphics, on the contrary, graphic realism improves immersive gameplay by a lot, at least for me. The only game I play nowadays is DCS in VR. for anyone that hasn't tried that yet, you're in for a treat. There's no point going back, just doesn't make sense to me.

So I would love to have a subsim game (or space game for that matter, pretty much the same thing I guess) that would recreate the inside of a real or fictional ship with high fidelity with battle station consoles, sensor stations, engineering, weapons etc. in a "non-condescending" way, without fisher-price style interfaces and game mechanics.

Does that make sense to anyone?.. I'm not talking about the work that would require which would be considerable of course but I think this could maybe be of interest to a greater public that you might think. DCS can be very technical and you do have a decent amount of people playing it.

You say the game core is what matters, the bells and whistles can come later. Couldn't agree with you more, how difficult would it be to "attach" those screens you have been coding to an actual 3d model? using unreal or unity there are pretty amazing and smart things that can be made..

Anyway, don't hate me for this comment. I just found this post a few days ago for the first time and really love the idea and game. Great job man, hope you keep at it.

I have thought about it too, it seemed to me a natural counter to my lack of graphical competence and resources: a snappy feel of an unusual VR interface. After some consideration I've put the idea on hold. The main causes of my disenchantment were:

1). The 3 main mechanics that I value the most, TMA, waterfall and active sonar, are well covered by inherently 2D interfaces (tactical map, waterfall, active sonar wavefront image). Keyboard and mouse are optimal interaction methods for these interfaces. VR looks like a detriment here, not an improvement. You will effectively spend 95% of the time in the views that do nothing for VR experience, and, in fact, are better off without it.
2). VR is strong at character immersion, which needs character and his environment. For subsim it means at least a detailed bridge and the controls on it +- characters. I certainly do not have a skill nor do I have time for such a system.
3). It should be possible to add VR to Wolfpack IMHO. I think the best chance to have a live experiment on whether VR is viable or not in a subsim is to keep pushing it's devs towards it. Their possible refusal to do it would be a great result in it's own: it would mean that the effort is not justified in current the market.

To conclude, I think VR is good for "cockpit" experience. Subsims are not a cockpit experience. Flight and racing sims are.
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Old 03-07-2020, 03:37 PM   #34
ottoatom
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wow, you did think about it.. all valid points, I stand corrected. The only closest thing to what I was saying would be startrek bridge commander (with better graphics, because that thing is hideous..) with your sensor style systems

I guess emulating an existing sub in a game is not great in VR. In light of what you say, the sensors would have to be tailored for VR, much like what they have done for elite dangerous so probably a fictional ship either under the sea or in space with a well thought out interface would work best.

You are onto something though, a missing part in most games around. Im sure something great will come out of it.
Cheers,
Otto

Last edited by ottoatom; 03-07-2020 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 03-07-2020, 06:36 PM   #35
Aktungbby
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Default Welcome aboard!

ottoatom!
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:05 PM   #36
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lol, awesome! Talk about "Immersion!"

Great sound!
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Old 04-02-2020, 04:28 PM   #37
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Just wanted to say, awesome little project you've got there. I am terrible at Dangerous Waters but this is just great fun to play.

I have only played against bots but I can definitely see the potential ; I love the ability to have multiple instances running on several screens.

Are there any plans to add surface ships or perhaps just "neutrals" that players can use to hide behind? Similarly, and since you are not going for full realism, would there be different water biomes / zones that could have different acoustic properties?

Looking forward to future progress/updates!
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:44 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Althar93 View Post
Just wanted to say, awesome little project you've got there. I am terrible at Dangerous Waters but this is just great fun to play.

I have only played against bots but I can definitely see the potential ; I love the ability to have multiple instances running on several screens.

Are there any plans to add surface ships or perhaps just "neutrals" that players can use to hide behind? Similarly, and since you are not going for full realism, would there be different water biomes / zones that could have different acoustic properties?

Looking forward to future progress/updates!

Thanks, yeah, love the windowing myself.

Neutrals is a good idea, though I'll need to teach AI not to cheat when observing the surroundings. Signal strength is fair, but merged contact discrimination is cheaty atm.
Surface probably will not happen.

Biomes and currents are a good flavor thing, probably will make it later.
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Old 04-11-2020, 01:12 PM   #39
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Thanks, Mike, you've crashed the server and exposed an interesting bug. I understood your point about the chat.
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:39 AM   #40
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Noooo problem hahaha.



I can't tell what is a crash or a bug or anything.



I can't figure out how to do the multiple window thing, it would be really useful.



last week i played a bunch, just learning the game and stuff. yesterday or the day before i tried playing but it was choppy. it kept skipping, only resuming in intervals of 2 seconds or something. i think that was my side not connecting right. my internet was gay or something.


Also last week i remember playing, there was 3 people online or something, but i couldn't join or something, i don't remember, maybe it crashed. I don't know how servers work, but i think it can't handle more than 3 people at once or soemthing.



very fun game, it took 3 days playing to be able to understand how to kill the first type of battle ship (easy)


I still don't know how to use the assisted aiming system, with the vector and all that, i just do a ping and gauge it by guess. for a player id vary a lot maybe 30 degree in a 6k distance, for a bot, i'd just aim 5-10 degrees right or left.


it takes a couple testing plays to see the volume of a torpedo that is close, how a ping looks like when an enemy makes one, the sounds a fast and slow ship make and a torpedo, whether filling the torpedo hatch and arming and shooting makes a loud enough sound the enemy can hear(its negligible), and a couple other things i can't remember.



most of the learning im doing is spending a game just isolating each game feature and learning it without focusing on the game. i think


Im looking back at the replays, i just spent 5 days playing until i got bored. It would be loads more fun with other players, i tried to get some guys to play with me. now THAT would be really fun. It feels really fun knowing im playing against a person. If i don't know that i think its less fun. When the battlefield is full of bots like last game, it just becomes soo hectic, but also fun initially, but i wouldn't like doing that. Im not exactly sure why, maybe its because the difficultly level raises too high and i don't feel like im achieving at the pace i want. For example, i measure achievement by the types of ships i destroy, and when the battlefield is full, i THINK i don't learn as much and killing ships is more chance. Im not sure, its a vague feeling/idea.



I think i like the feeling i get when i know i killed a player, because i feel i achieved more. I think after 5 days i didn't play more because it got too difficult too fast, like the battlefield got too hectic too fast. Im not sure. I'll play again after i get bored of other stuff and i get over the feelings i have with this game. Maybe thats what it is. lol


But anyway, great game guy! I think its teh first game ive seen like this, im not sure. But maybe the interest is using some real life skills into the game. Instead of the game doing everything for you. Like angles, and other stuff i can't remember.


I think if you replaced the trading ships with all battle ships after i destroy all the trading ones, it would make the game more exciting, because i'll feel every ship i destory is a step ahead. Because its impossible to tell ships apart based on sound or ping. When i shoot a trading ship down, i feel like im not advancing, while the game is getting exponentially harder, while im not learning about the new types of ships.



Im jumbling my words, What i mean to say is that the difficulty increases while the barrier for experimentation(more time invested) increases. So just to learn how the new ships work, i got to put even more time in, which makes the game more boring with time, and the info im getting may not even be right, because i don't know which type of ship im looking at. I think Thats why the interest lasted only 5 days. Maybe im right maybe im wrong. but thats the feeling i got. maybe if there is a sandbox mode of 1v1 with each ship and then a ffa mode. I could learn about each ship easily. the more i talk about it, the more sure i am. I think thats why it got boring after 5 days. Because i kept losing without gaining more information about the new ships. You can increase that time.


Maybe the chat is a good idea. Maybe its not. I think what i was thinking then is its more fun feeling you're playing against a person than a bot. Since you cannot know who or what you're shooting against. A chat would build a increase player count, cause i could easily play again with the guy by saving his name and stuff on steam or something. I can't think of any reasons why a chat would be a bad idea right now, but the more i type about it the more i understand it.

Last edited by Mikemaknonovitch; 04-24-2020 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:04 AM   #41
Boris-Barboris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikemaknonovitch View Post
I can't figure out how to do the multiple window thing, it would be really useful.

When you've spawned in your submarine, you launch dsubs_client second time and press connect to another window - it will join the first dsubs_client.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikemaknonovitch View Post
last week i played a bunch, just learning the game and stuff. yesterday or the day before i tried playing but it was choppy. it kept skipping, only resuming in intervals of 2 seconds or something. i think that was my side not connecting right. my internet was gay or something.

Yeah, this is Internet being slow. You're far away, problems may arise.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikemaknonovitch View Post
I think it can't handle more than 3 people at once or soemthing.

It definetly can, no worries, probably something lagged.


Thanks for feedback and your time. Makes me wish I could do more development.
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Old 04-30-2020, 12:01 AM   #42
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Just found this from the subsim main page, looks great! As a DW and DCS player too, definitely gonna try with my buddies.
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Old 05-04-2020, 09:39 PM   #43
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I just downloaded the game and gave it a spin. Very nice!

I'm going to keep watching this. I'm no good but maybe I'll get better =).
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:53 AM   #44
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https://github.com/Boris-Barboris/ds...ses/tag/v0.1.0

Good progress on a rather complex multi-simulator front.
I've got a working 'instancing' system that allows to run multiple simulators on my server simultaneously, which opens a path to scenarios, campaigns and tutorials. For now a duplicate of the main circular arena scenario is available as a "singleplayer" (you still play on the server, just not with other players) 'instance'.

Stub of scenario selection creen:




That was the main chunk of work I've pulled off in these 3 months. Some minor tweaks that I've also done:
  • Subtle 2.5km map grid.
  • Fix various bugs is scrollbar and text box.
  • Better noise level estimation in broadband tracker code, fixes Lima hydrohones.
  • Fix OpenAL source queing algorithm to improve min latencies on very high-latency connections.

Grid example:





I hope it is very subtle and does not annoy the player.


I will start working on all these boring mechanisms that need scenarios work: triggers, progress state saves, dialog boxes, text/radio messages, win/loss conditions, hints and all that. Will probably be ready around October, with a couple of tutorial scenarios.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:38 AM   #45
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frpandore, red cross in left upper corner to abandon the instance.
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