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Old 03-15-2020, 11:13 AM   #16
Furia
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How do you come with this figure of 10 to 20 minutes reload time?
Any source you can share.

For what I have read in several books the reload was far much faster.

Even in Wikipedia they are talking about 3 minutes.

Hedgehog_(weapon)
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Old 03-15-2020, 12:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furia View Post
How do you come with this figure of 10 to 20 minutes reload time?
Any source you can share.

For what I have read in several books the reload was far much faster.

Even in Wikipedia they are talking about 3 minutes.

Hedgehog_(weapon)
it may well be, that's why I used the word "estimate". I was working from the premise that replacement hedge-hog charges would not be laying around the deck before firing, ready to reload, but would need to be brought up from the magazine. I'd have expected this resupply to occur until they were told to stop, so its the first reload that would be most time-consuming. If you had the new rounds ready and by the weapon, then 3 minutes makes sense. But if not, then 10-20 minutes is probably a better estimate, dropping back towards the 3 minute mark as time goes on. On the other hand, DC's were (erroneously) believed at the time to be far more effective than hedge-hog and as the same people who were resupplying HH's were also bringing up the DC's, it's entirely possible the HH was only used once whilst in asdic contact, with the reload occurring once contact was lost.

I'm simply asking of anyone knows, or can provide evidence for, the reload rates, the rest of it is surmise.
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Old 03-15-2020, 02:38 PM   #18
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I have found this video with a lot of interesting data about Hedgehogs and it also mentions the 3 minutes.



And on this one you can see the loading cadence. Apparently the magazine is just right behind the launcher

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Old 03-16-2020, 06:54 AM   #19
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Most interesting, thanks.
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Old 04-05-2020, 06:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidd View Post
it may well be, that's why I used the word "estimate". I was working from the premise that replacement hedge-hog charges would not be laying around the deck before firing, ready to reload, but would need to be brought up from the magazine. I'd have expected this resupply to occur until they were told to stop, so its the first reload that would be most time-consuming. If you had the new rounds ready and by the weapon, then 3 minutes makes sense. But if not, then 10-20 minutes is probably a better estimate, dropping back towards the 3 minute mark as time goes on. On the other hand, DC's were (erroneously) believed at the time to be far more effective than hedge-hog and as the same people who were resupplying HH's were also bringing up the DC's, it's entirely possible the HH was only used once whilst in asdic contact, with the reload occurring once contact was lost.

I'm simply asking of anyone knows, or can provide evidence for, the reload rates, the rest of it is surmise.

There was a magazine for additional shells but most were held in "ready to use" ammunition lockers next to the weapons they were intended for. The deck gun had racks that held shells all around it, each 20mm had their own lockers right next to the spotlights behind them. Hedgehog had a big ole locker right behind the blast shield of the main gun. So each weapon was always in the ready to be used and reloaded because in war, seconds, not minutes, count.
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Old 04-05-2020, 07:06 PM   #21
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radar Hedgehog Progress

https://imgur.com/xTHevjO

I can bet that my pictures would be over sized. But I been working on the hedgehog quite a bit and have set up where you can see two of them next to another. The one on the left with the rainbow colors is there to indicate the fire groups of each shell, the one on the right represents roll compensation and isn't important to be colorized.

https://imgur.com/g7UXnIy
I am testing out the gyro stabization of the weapon which it was able to compensate for roll and pitch of the ship. I have the numbers to how much forward and back, side to side the thing was able to compensate but the real puzzle is in the how. I have found out that each of the 6 shells sits on one of 4 cradles and like a baby cradle is able to swing to and fro. This to and fro motion of the cradles is how it is able to compensate for roll. However, I still haven't found how it compensated pitch.
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Old 04-05-2020, 10:03 PM   #22
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They may not have needed to. The pitching of a ship is generally readable from the observed swell and waves, and of course you have a pretty good idea when the ship is longtitudinally about level. All that would be needed is to commence the electrical (?) firing an instant before the boat is level in pitch? Even a crude "foresight" on the front of the ship, when about level with the distant horizon would be enough to "eye-ball" it....
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Old 04-06-2020, 01:58 AM   #23
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Hm, I would have expected some form of mechanical gyroscope in play there, at the time. Why wouldn't/didn't it work?
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:45 AM   #24
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I can't imagine a worse environment for an expensive and delicate gyroscope than being on a rolling/pitching/yawing Flower Class which drops depth-charges. Lots of them.

Much easier to put a mark of paint on the foremast at the height of the horizon as viewed from the bridge (on a flat calm sea) and just slightly anticipate it passing through the horizon as the boat pitches, I would think the latter, which is not prone to damage or hideously expensive, would be the RN's preferred "system" for this...

Even today, the captains of our submarines are expected to be able, and can, rapidly calculate torpedo firing solutions in their heads, rather than being helpless if all the technology falls-over.

Now, I have no evidence that such a "paint on a stick" system were used, but I think it's a pretty fair bet. I don't have the performance figures of hedgehog, but I'd be interested to know, if someone fancies calculating the parabolas, what error in pitch of the boat at firing would prevent a hit, assuming all else is accurate....
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