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Old 04-13-10, 12:29 PM   #1
ddrgn
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Default [REL] Feared Hunters 2.1 - Updated 04/27/2010

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Feared Hunters 2.1 - by ddrgn (AI, DC and SENSOR MOD)
Patch 1.2 compatible (Checked May 12, 2010)

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Special thanks to all the fine modders past and present.

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Overview and goal:

In this mod I have tried to increase the chances that the player will make mistakes and either die or become crippled realistically from his errors.
You can still evade DD's by using deep dive and run silent tactics. Turning will also improve your chances of avoiding charges. The accuracy of the DD's
charges is a little better but most of the time they are misses. Anything within 25m of your boat you will feel it and take damage. Although not always
realistic this mod tries to put the fear "back" into the player when seeing a DD, forcing a thinking mans game, instead of point and shoot.

I have tried to balance the the AI sensors to work with the more deadly charges an found a nice balance. Sensors (visual, sonar, hydrophones) are weaker
but when your detected they will unleash hell upon you ;}When in range of a DD go silent running (1 knot) or they will detect you if in close range.

Remember the closer you are the quieter you need to be.

The DD's should not damage themselves or other units around them, except enemies of course.

All comments are welcome.

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Features of this mod:

-Increased depth charge damage
-Damage from well laid, more precise charges increased
-Minor AI tweak allows ships to race at contacts at full speed
-Longer lost detection time
-Balanced AI sensors and cannons.

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Changes 2.1:

-Fixed problem where Corvettes would randomly hit themselves or other units with charges.
This problem was rarely seen but happened in stock as well.

-Changed lost contact time to 60 mins. They will hold on to you longer, 2.0 was 20 mins.

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Change Log 2.0:


-Changed max range enemy can visually spot submarine from 20k to 7k

-Increased night factor. Night time visual contacts take more time.

-Changed Max and Min Effect for Depth Charges
(3rd accurate pass and you should be dead if you havent taken proper avoidance steps)

-Changed Min and Max radius of Depth Charges (charges when accurate will take more hit points from the sub)

-Destroyers now go full speed towards contact (as per Nisgeis's mod)

-Enemies visual detection time is now increased
(In stock, the enemy can spot your scope the second it comes from the water night/day,
this will allow for some human error on the enemies side and give players
a chance to make a solution before being spotted, good for convoys)

-Max error angle on the enemy cannons has been increased to 9
(this should remove the perfect cannon fire from all ships)

-AI guns range increased to 2500m

-Hydrophone thermal layer removed, stills exists in sonar but reduced 33% in this mod

-Enemy visual contacts in fog decreased by 25% for a total of 60% reduction in this condition.
(Meaning it should take about 60% longer to acquire you than in day, associated with max vis range and visual detection time)

-Lost contact time increased to 20 mins, any longer than this and your dead for sure.

-Hydrophone and Sonar sensitivities decreased to half it was in stock (compensating for improved dc's)

-Enemy Surface factor on Sonar is now reduced to 52 sqm to allow units to ping with more accuracy in a cluttered environment (multiple ships)

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Files changes (5):

sh5/cfg/sim.cfg
sh5/library/dc_barrels.zon, ai_sensors.sim
sh5/scripts/ai/ship-navigation.aix
sh5/sea/nco_flower/nco_flower.zon

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Install via JSGME.

You have permission to use my mod in combinations with other mods as long as credit is shown in your readme.
I would contact me for the latest version and help making sure the version is the best possible for your mod.

Download: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1737

--------------------

Good Hunting!
-ddrgn

Last edited by ddrgn; 05-12-10 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 04-13-10, 12:35 PM   #2
ReFaN
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Will check it out, thanks
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Old 04-13-10, 12:35 PM   #3
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Interesting, will check this out thanks. Hopefully the much awaited patch will improve the AI's behaviour, see your getting into the mechanics of it all, that can only be good for us all, thanks.
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Old 04-13-10, 12:40 PM   #4
ddrgn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ablemaster View Post
Interesting, will check this out thanks. Hopefully the much awaited patch will improve the AI's behaviour, see your getting into the mechanics of it all, that can only be good for us all, thanks.
Scripting as it sits isn't where the problem is I think, The scripts all make sense when I look at them. To me the problem really was the damage, they DD's we're dropping a hundred charges and maybe getting 1 decent hit.
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Old 04-13-10, 12:50 PM   #5
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The other problem is the campaign itself I'm guessing. The units are probably placed in the mission editor as novice or even veteran. The units act a lot better with elite VeterncyLevel.

Here is a mission you can use to test the DD AI yourselves.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1738

Single player can add it via JSGME.

You can stick you scopes up, see how long it takes to see you.

Fire up your electrics and watch how the DD's react.

You can try to out run them and see how much damage your going to take.

Its fun to watch them in time compression you get a real feel for what they are doing and how they react to you.
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Old 04-13-10, 02:13 PM   #6
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What about lost contact?
With your mod DD's will use some search patterns like in Nisgeis killer mod?

Anyway meanwhile i will give it a try - sounds interesting, and good to know that you have future planes for it.
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Old 04-13-10, 02:14 PM   #7
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Nice
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Old 04-13-10, 02:35 PM   #8
ddrgn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t0maz View Post
What about lost contact?
With your mod DD's will use some search patterns like in Nisgeis killer mod?

Anyway meanwhile i will give it a try - sounds interesting, and good to know that you have future planes for it.
I couldn't incorporate his exact scripts without permission. The only problem i see with that script is its contact related, so the escorts will always maintain a certain action until a precondition for another occurs,. His follow lightly scripts are enabled by contacts so the search pattern doesn't really make sense, as its already written in the script to do that.

This mod change the way the DD will detect you, they race forward and drop charges till losing contact, they will continue to track you a little longer with better chances of harming you. I very lightly changed the scripting with this.

As for search patterns while in convoys, perhaps work incorporated in the future will have all combined.
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Old 04-15-10, 02:21 PM   #9
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My feedback:
I have attacked convoy in heavy fog. After first ship sink and game reload beause of bug the weather is clear, sunny without wind.
So I see what escort doing - depth charging nothing few hundred meters from me...
After some time and manuvers at low speed periscope depth... oops some merchat is going direct to me - standard back - alot of noise. I torpeded 2 more ships. Escort still DC'ing nothing. My mistake I forgot set speed back to minimum. It takes alot of time when accidentaly DD probably heard me. Rig for silent runing, I gone 100m deep, minimum ahead. They cannot hit me - so just used Time compresion without any evasive manuvers. They lost me very fast.
After some time they leave merchant without propeller for me and leave after convoy. So i back to periscope depth and finish him by gun (no more torpedos). I was curius reaction so I just waited with Time compression. Wow! 2 DD's are returning for me.
But.. I was only gone periscope depth. and do nothing but observing them. They goes full ahed where ship was sunk, and doesn't stop or searching. Just go straight full speed don't care that i'm somwhere here, or to return back to protect convoy.

So I see a lot of work to get this mod work realistic.

For me its too easy (just silent runing, dive and time compression), so I still stick with Nisgeis U-Boat Killer Mod. There DDs are going after me hard.

I hope that feedback will helps tune your mod.
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Old 04-15-10, 02:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t0maz View Post
My feedback:
I have attacked convoy in heavy fog. After first ship sink and game reload beause of bug the weather is clear, sunny without wind.
So I see what escort doing - depth charging nothing few hundred meters from me...
After some time and manuvers at low speed periscope depth... oops some merchat is going direct to me - standard back - alot of noise. I torpeded 2 more ships. Escort still DC'ing nothing. My mistake I forgot set speed back to minimum. It takes alot of time when accidentaly DD probably heard me. Rig for silent runing, I gone 100m deep, minimum ahead. They cannot hit me - so just used Time compresion without any evasive manuvers. They lost me very fast.
After some time they leave merchant without propeller for me and leave after convoy. So i back to periscope depth and finish him by gun (no more torpedos). I was curius reaction so I just waited with Time compression. Wow! 2 DD's are returning for me.
But.. I was only gone periscope depth. and do nothing but observing them. They goes full ahed where ship was sunk, and doesn't stop or searching. Just go straight full speed don't care that i'm somwhere here, or to return back to protect convoy.

So I see a lot of work to get this mod work realistic.

For me its too easy (just silent runing, dive and time compression), so I still stick with Nisgeis U-Boat Killer Mod. There DDs are going after me hard.

I hope that feedback will helps tune your mod.
You see completely different behaviors than me. To truly test this kind of mod you need to spend time, a lot of time being hunted by DD's to watch their every move. I appreciate the comment, but would appreciate an opinion from more than one game.

I have spent time talking with Nigesis, my mod does little to the script and much more to sensors and charges.

All the DD's in the campaign are not elites or veterns, they are placed as novice and poor. This affects them greatly, any behaviorism you see is stock.

Keep in mind the Hunter Killer does not improve damage very much and with his mod installed they may do more spiral searches but they will never sink you like in my mod.

Can you clarify what the problem was though? Your post isn't very clear on that... Thanks

And I have to disagree with you about the realistic part, like I said you based it off one encounter, I have spent a a hundered hours watching them move around.

I will post a video showing stock behavior and damage compared to my mod.
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Old 04-15-10, 03:21 PM   #11
t0maz
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Don't take it as offend or critic for critic..
I'm trying to help you by sending a feedback from my last adventure

So far it was to easy for my..
I will make some more tests when I find some time for game.
Im testing it in campaign not a single missions.

Hmm.. And maybe that what is hurt me is lack of this changes in AI scripts.
Compatible version with uboat killer could be double fun with his AI and yours sensors tweaks.

So keep up good working and I will send some more feedback asap
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Old 04-15-10, 03:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t0maz View Post
Don't take it as offend or critic for critic..
I'm trying to help you by sending a feedback from my last adventure

So far it was to easy for my..
I will make some more tests when I find some time for game.
Im testing it in campaign not a single missions.

Hmm.. And maybe that what is hurt me is lack of this changes in AI scripts.
Compatible version with uboat killer could be double fun with his AI and yours sensors tweaks.

So keep up good working and I will send some more feedback asap
Yep no worries... Combining them would be neat.

Im working on a video, stock, modded to show the difference in the overall effect of the improved damage and sensors.
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Old 04-15-10, 05:37 PM   #13
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Im sure now that sensors are to poor.
Im making fun with few destroyers in recon port mission in shallow water on depth 18m, speeds any.
On low speeds the lost me easly in higher speeds they hear me but cannot hit me even in flank ahead.
At half ahead and slower I can lost them easly just using time compression.
Played with them until battery is dead - all time on 18m depth.

In shallow water I should be death fast instantly pinged and depth charged.
I should avoid their detection at any cost.

Some more observations:
Surfaced at night full ahead I was spoted in distance 500m by unalarmed DD.
Same situation with alarmed DD - I was spoted just after surfacing at 2500m - quick, thats good.

On periscope depth, periscope up at night he hear or saw me (good question..) at something below 100m - almost impact.

No Damage from DC's, all damage was by guns on surface...
That really strange that they have so big problem to hit me by DC's!
They also rarely use sonar - rather on close distances, but this is probably their AI.

Personally I think that to put fear back to player, sensors should not be decrased nor visual detection etc.
with exception for:

"-Enemies visual detection time is now increased
(In stock, the enemy can spot your scope the second it comes from the water night/day,
this will allow for some human error on the enemies side and give players
a chance to make a solution before being spotted, good for convoys)"

Yeah, spoting periscope in 1 second sounds very unrealistic
But should be also set to something not allowing staying with periscope up longer than needed on short distance. I don't know what you set now.

..and all changes that makes game harder and punish player for errors!
We must fell the pressure!
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Old 04-15-10, 05:44 PM   #14
ddrgn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t0maz View Post
Im sure now that sensors are to poor.
Im making fun with few destroyers in recon port mission in shallow water on depth 18m, speeds any.
On low speeds the lost me easly in higher speeds they hear me but cannot hit me even in flank ahead.
At half ahead and slower I can lost them easly just using time compression.
Played with them until battery is dead - all time on 18m depth.

In shallow water I should be death fast instantly pinged and depth charged.
I should avoid their detection at any cost.

Some more observations:
Surfaced at night full ahead I was spoted in distance 500m by unalarmed DD.
Same situation with alarmed DD - I was spoted just after surfacing at 2500m - quick, thats good.

On periscope depth, periscope up at night he hear or saw me (good question..) at something below 100m - almost impact.

No Damage from DC's, all damage was by guns on surface...
That really strange that they have so big problem to hit me by DC's!
They also rarely use sonar - rather on close distances, but this is probably their AI.

Personally I think that to put fear back to player, sensors should not be decrased nor visual detection etc.
with exception for:

"-Enemies visual detection time is now increased
(In stock, the enemy can spot your scope the second it comes from the water night/day,
this will allow for some human error on the enemies side and give players
a chance to make a solution before being spotted, good for convoys)"

Yeah, spoting periscope in 1 second sounds very unrealistic
But should be also set to something not allowing staying with periscope up longer than needed on short distance. I don't know what you set now.

..and all changes that makes game harder and punish player for errors!
We must fell the pressure!

All these behaviors you state are based on the DD veternecy levels, these are not problems with the mod. Your up against Poor to Novice units, unfortunately my mod does not change the campaign. Not all DC passes will be accurate. With this mod you will take much more damage when the pass is accurate, stock you take virtually none.

Videos forth coming...
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Old 04-15-10, 06:09 PM   #15
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I see now.
I hope they will fix DD's levels in campaign or their AI with next patch..
Will try to do more test when there will be compatible version of mod.
Should by fun then
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