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Old 02-25-15, 05:17 PM   #46
nsomnia
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I didnt even notice 4.7 was released yesterday

https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/un...ne-47-released

I'm downloading the source right now and then I'm going to make a video "Switching from Unity to UE4 Vol 1" for both my channel and yourself.

With everything they added in this version I can't think of one thing its missing from Unity, they just use different names.

Not so useful to me right now but what I think is really cool is they have DLC support right from the get go:
Quote:
Downloadable content (DLC) can now be packaged up for distribution!
Currently this feature is in beta testing and requires a command-line tool. Create your add-on DLC inside a game plugin Content folder, and use the new packaging tool to “cook” and optimize your content for your platform of choice.
This feature makes use of the game’s asset registry to know what content is already supplied in the shipped game, and will cook anything needed from the game’s content into the DLC.
To use this feature, run the cook utility for your main game with “-CreateReleaseVersion=x.y”, then again for each DLC plugin with “-BasedOnReleaseVersion=x.y -DLCName=MyPluginName”.
I'm so reinvigorated. You could get all the features in UE4 in Unreal through the Asset Store but youd be spending thousands of dollars.
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Old 02-25-15, 08:34 PM   #47
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Well unfortunatly I spent 3 hours debugging an error with the solution (A folder name was had # in it which wasnt allowed apparently... which sucks cause I keep my important folders prefixed with # so they are at the top of the directory listing ie #Blender Stuff #YouTube #Photoshop #Video Courses #Unity Stuff #Coding Stuff, Blueprints, Models, Textures, etc)

and then it took 2.5 hours to compile on my 6 core 4ghz computer

So tommorrow I'll get started. Today was a compiling day (and I re-watched some video courses so that I was sure I had a general feel for UE4.x)

I created some 2 basic meshes and associated diffuse maps and exported them to .FBX in Blender. We will see how they import (4.7 now automatically knows what your trying to import), then I'll use blueprint (node based, visual scripting) to show how easy it to rotate along an axis.

The new version also checks your projects folder every 5 seconds or so for changes so if you change a texture its immediately shown in the viewport, no more having to re-fresh images or removing/re-adding components all together.

The material system is SOOOO cool. Its just like blender. No more having a diffuse and normal map texture on a mesh with the alpha channel holding your spec map that you have to have a special program to put in the alpha channel and then code a shader... its all visual node based now... just like Blenders material editor! You bring in a texture and apply modifiers (math, grime node, etc. etc. etc.) to it then plug it into the diffuse node, and the same for spec, AO, normal etc. and it does all the shader compiling for you. What a time saver, plus you get a real-time preview of what the shader/material WITH textures will look like.

Then after you create whats called a "master material" say a metal floor you create instanced materials by editing any values you determine to be parameters when you design the material/shader setup. So you might have metal_floor.material metal_floor_rusted.materialinstance and metal_floor_spilled_paint.materialinstance.

Not to mention you can do 95% of the coding with this node based system... I'm excited to see how much further I can get in this than Unity before I actually have to start using code for complex things but I have yet to see very many things that cant be done in blueprint. Heres an example of an input node, math node, and get/set node used to change a value in a function or class or something (havn't looked at the whole tutorial)


They also added a git-hub plugin stock for teams using git-hub. That with Visual Studio 2013's git-hub system will be soooo nice with extra team-members in the future. Not to mention they are using the PhysX 3.3 engine (I just checked, Unity isnt switching to version 3 till Unity 5 comes out ) gonna be some cool oppertunities.

The one downside is the marketplace is really empty so far since its only a few months old. I'm gonna start making videos on UE4 to supplement my Unity and Blender and other channels. I need to start a dedicated channel currently my Unity videos are spread out across 2 channels.
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Old 02-26-15, 04:24 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad View Post
You know i have failed and failed at completing my indie projects as well


Its not exactly the video you want to see yet (the video on importing a mesh, making a nice material, then creating a component to spin it on a mouse or key press will only be 5-10 minutes long) but for my Blender channel I made a 40 minute long video comparing Unity 4.6.2f1 to Unreal Engine 4.7. I go over all the basic functionality (asset importing, organization, hierarchy and inspector window and components and a few others) we are used to in Unity and where to find it or what its called in Unreal to show people how incredibly similar they are and where Unreal exceeds or doesnt exceed (only one thing I found so far: unreal imports assets slightly slower).

The first 25 minutes is the comparison. The last 15 minutes I import and material two meshes in Unity and then I do the exact same thing in UE4 for the first time ever.

If you have 45 minutes to blow throw it up on your TV otherwise I'll create that video tommorrow or saturday now that I know the basics of UE4 I can move onto blueprint coding.

I used to argue with everyone that said Unreal was better on my Blender channel, now im re-replying with apologies LOL.

The fact Blender exported the mesh just fine made my only worry go away.

This weekend I re-start the project in Unreal Engine and update the Git-Hub.
Going to layout all the decks, bulkheads, and hatches and then import it into Unreal to start filling out with equipment etc. Then start some basic game logic and then start working on the ocean. Then start work on a map system (which is where I struggled before) and so on and so forth.

Procedural ocean floors is another feature thats going to be implemented, was directed to some ways to do it easily.
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Old 02-26-15, 04:46 PM   #49
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You do realize there have been node-based shader editors like that available for Unity for free since, 2010 or something?
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Old 02-26-15, 04:55 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julhelm View Post
You do realize there have been node-based shader editors like that available for Unity for free since, 2010 or something?
Yep but I'm now starting to agree that having it built into the editor from the get-go is just.... nice makes the pipeline smoother. Just plug your nodes in and go. You have to remember I'm an artist first, coder second.

That and budget. Unity was getting expensive.
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Old 02-27-15, 01:50 AM   #51
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You know, if you're going to make any serious project it's going to end up being expensive. That said, while it is nice to have such things built in from the get-go, I like that Unity forced me to learn how to write my own fragment shaders. It just gives me more control over final performance. All of the node-based editors output the same CG code anyway, but they do so using their own proprietary nodes which means it is difficult to edit or understand the code afterwards if you need to manually optimize calculations. Writing your own code makes this much easier.
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Old 02-27-15, 03:16 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad View Post
You know i have failed and failed at completing my indie projects as well. It's too bad we couldn't come up with something unique that we could apply our skill sets to successfully just to say we 'completed' something.

00:30 - Intro
2:00 - Start with importing the same mesh and texture
3:40 - Create the same material
4:45 - Apply material
5:20 - Making a prefab/scripting part
14:15 - Testing
14:45 - Previewing in the blueprint editor
15:05 - Conclusion Start
16:20 - Conclusion End / Final Conclusion



Heres the video I got figured out this morning if you got 10 minutes (4-14 minute mark is what your intresting in I think). Starts at minute mark with importing the same mesh and texture and creating the same material then turning it into a prefab with a script to rotate it a set amount when 'Y' is pressed. It went on a little longer than I thought but I recorded this directly after I 'figured it out' from playing around.

Let me know what you think about the general idea of Unreal, curious. I'm loving it so far and I used to argue for Unity so much. Only thing im noticing is its a little taxing on the computer, a bit slower than Unity and takes up an extra 150-200 megs of ram.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julhelm View Post
You know, if you're going to make any serious project it's going to end up being expensive. That said, while it is nice to have such things built in from the get-go, I like that Unity forced me to learn how to write my own fragment shaders. It just gives me more control over final performance. All of the node-based editors output the same CG code anyway, but they do so using their own proprietary nodes which means it is difficult to edit or understand the code afterwards if you need to manually optimize calculations. Writing your own code makes this much easier.
I take your points and agree. I am learning C++ as I go for optimization because I heard blueprint can be up to 10x slower than straight code with complex calculations. Whats cool is you can flesh it out in Blueprint then convert that to a C++ solution to continue working on/optimize/change things. Some very neat features as I explore this more and more.

They also released the 4.7.1 minor release hotfix less than 24 hours after the 4.7 major release. (and its cool on the GitHub they have Release Candidate versions available for testing and Alpha/Beta versions available for testing, as long as your subscription is valid anyway, otherwise your stuck with the last version you downloaded.

Doing this video and figuring out the basics of the Blueprint system took longer than anticipated so I might not get as much work done today as promised but this weekend for sure expect some major updates (going to model a 1950 era sub exterior and flesh out the major structural details in every compartment and also start looking into the ocean/weather project. Will be posting updates, hope to eventually convince someone to come on board.

My biggest gripe with Unreal so far is compatibility between versions. Since they are updating versions SO fast since its such a new idea for them, and the marketplace being BRAND BRAND new... assets from the marketplace currently have to be updated for each release. For example the free assets are for the last major release 4.6.1 from a month or so ago. They havnt been updated for 4.7 released 3 days ago, although some are already updated for the 4.7.1 released a few hours ago. The marketplace is also lacking majorly for the time being. The community forums makes up for it with the amount of free stuff people are sharing as they explore the engine but its no-where near Unitys Asset Store. At all.

I just bought the new Digital Tutors course "Building an Interactive Day Night Cycle Game in Unreal Engine. I think I own every course on UE4 from the major tutor websites... just havn't started any.

Does Unity have the ability to create animations by recording physics interations in the editor play preview? What about making cinematics from within the editor is there an addon for that? Those two, especially the animations from physics simulations are some of the coolest features IMO. And Blueprint is starting to get up there.
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Old 02-27-15, 06:40 PM   #53
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I do know there is an asset on the asset store for cutscene creation. When I was lead technical artist on Perils of Man which also used Unity we animated the cameras within the 3d app and then exported proxy objects for these to which the camera was then attached in Unity.

When I last worked with Unreal Engine (was UE3 I think) I found it clunky and the fbx importer cumbersome. As for Blueprint, a similar tool exists for Unity called Playmaker which is also a node-based editor that allows you to make an entire game. However I think any tool that 'simplifies' programming by removing the programming itself is always going to end up limiting what you can make.

When I worked with Frostbite it had node-based editors for scripting and shader creation similar to what is available for Unreal and Unity. I think CryEngine has some equivalent function. Of all the engines I've worked with I think Unity is the most user-friendly.
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Old 02-27-15, 07:50 PM   #54
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I agree it is the most user-friendly and I'll code anyday vs node-based anything. But its nice for learning while I go, as long as I dont depend on it. I own playMaker but never used it really, never had a project where I thought it would help me.

Edit: I did by this course and I am excited to see if its great or sucks. http://www.digitaltutors.com/tutoria...-Unreal-Engine
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Old 02-28-15, 12:18 AM   #55
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Did alot of measuring tonight and starting fleshing out the other compartments here for example is the base walls for the COs & XOs staterooms as well as the officers shower and sr wardroom 2 and 4.

Edit: And cleaned up github and updated it a bit.

Edit2: The picture would help yes I know I havnt recalculated my normals yet

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Old 02-28-15, 09:53 AM   #56
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@nsomnia,

Thank you for recording and uploading the videos you've linked to. As I mentioned in the video's comments section, very helpful for me to see it step by step.

I do not have experience with node-based development, I never jumped on the Playmaker bandwagon, but I do see it's value for quickly prototyping. Perhaps when my work-load decreases in April I can afford some spare time to play with Unreal.

Thanks again,
Chad
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Old 02-28-15, 11:56 AM   #57
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I'll definitly pay for your subscription for you to mess around with it even if just to try it. 20$ for the chance to have someone with more experiance than me the change to maybe add something small is a bargin to me.

Will update this post later I'm filling out more of the compartment as seen above. Updated a ton of the github wiki as well.

Edit: Got the Galley/Mess/Officers Quarters compartment layout finalized. Got the ocean setup updated for Unreal 4.7 hotfix 1 so I'm gonna play with that for a while later tonight, but only for a bit I'm going to do something more constructive and start fleshing out the general exterior shape of Nautilus. I asked a submarine modeller what he would charge. 100 for the model. 300 for the .blend. Psh I'll model it myself thank you, even though thats an acceptable price its unacceptable with my current project budget. I read a good phrase. "Game development success: Time, budget, skills. You'll succeed as long as you have two, and each one changes the others"
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Old 02-28-15, 08:27 PM   #58
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Did you find some decent blue prints? I know you are familiar with TheBlueprints.com, saw one of your YouTube videos include a reference to the site.

I always get hung up on the exterior of the boat despite the least amount of time is spent outside of the hull
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Old 02-28-15, 08:46 PM   #59
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A crewmember got me blueprints of everything fwd of the reactor compartment (check out the main reference folder on github). Nautilus is basically just a WWII fleet boat with a reactor inside. I find modelling subs easy, I just havnt started on her yet. That said it is hard to find blueprints of subs of anything more than a side view since they are so top secret.

Trying to create some of those "cloth" doors you see on ships. Its been so long since I've done cloth simulation im having a hard time. Might be better off doing it by hand it'll be faster then trying to simulate it just right.



Blueprints I've saved since starting this project: https://github.com/Nsomnia/ColdWarSu...%26%20Drawings got everything a sub of that era would have when I have time to REALLY get specific/detailed. Way past version 1.0 kinda thing

In terms of 571.. this is the one the vet crew member Twiggy sent me everything aft is top-secret still. (Warning: HUGE its all the decks and tanks and profile.) https://github.com/Nsomnia/ColdWarSu...ew%2010001.jpg I've been using it to get 90% accurate measurements of everything in the ship with his help. He cant send me anything aft what-so-ever though

This one is the one ill be using to model the exterior, one I take it into Photoshop to turn it into a black and white line-drawing. I've checked and its to perfect scale. If you know how to model well and use blueprints well its indispensable its got the profile at various points of the hull, profile views and dimensions in addition to your standard front/back top/side: https://github.com/Nsomnia/ColdWarSu...571/SSN571.jpg

This one was the only one on the-blueprints just a orthographic render would have to trace it by hand: https://github.com/Nsomnia/ColdWarSu...20500px%5D.jpg

This one can be helpful im sure: https://github.com/Nsomnia/ColdWarSu...us-ssn5717.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad View Post
Did you find some decent blue prints? I know you are familiar with TheBlueprints.com, saw one of your YouTube videos include a reference to the site.

I always get hung up on the exterior of the boat despite the least amount of time is spent outside of the hull
I know what you mean, that's why I've spent no time on the exterior yet, that and this other crew member was supposed to be sending me prints from Electric Boats but he isnt replying to my emails anymore Is there a specific boat or class your looking for? I'm a great googler is all with a lot of reference links, emails and forums.

What helped me learn to do vehicle modelling was to follow the 57 thunderbird Blender tutorial on youtube. I downloaded all 16 hour long lessons or however many they are and modelled it vert for vert as close as I could. It ended up looking amazing. Unfortunatly that was on my laptop when I was starting to learn Blender professionally and its all lost now except a few early renders.

Modelling ships, even though they are easier than say a car. Is very hard. MY least favorite things to model except for characters because everything has to be "smooth and 'flat'" but everything has to be contoured and curved and the topology has to be perfect/near perfect or you'll get visible "wrinkles". That's where a profile view really helps as in the blue colored blue print.

If your trying to model a U-boat for example I have drawings of the entire boat that were probably better than the German boat builders had. I also have the entire "Anatomy of the ships" series of books. Most of them are classical boats but if you need to model the anchor gearing for the Bismark its got it lol. I want that guys sources! At least one day when I do a UnrealDLC (once they've got the system perfected) I'll be able to model a type XII U-Boat better than Ubisoft!

Also I have a list of about 30 crewmembers I havnt emailed yet to see if they have any documents kicking around. For example just today Twiggy emailed me a top and side profile view of 571's mast with the correct placement and sizing (and listing) of everything... ELF loop, periscopes etc. that he found going through some old documents. He worked on all the analog computers so he saved all this stuff for some reason?


For ships though the general rule is you want the deck view and the side view minimum. Bow view is a bonus and aft view is nice. Having the hull profile views is what makes a blueprint a blueprint vs just a drawing IMHO.

I think im done for the night though. The doctor is having me try to take less of my happy pills each day so I've been putting less night time hours in especially during the weekends. Tomorrow morning I'm gonna start the layout of the next compartment. By next weekend I'll have the entire ship layed out and ready for "filling in" (after I send a walkthrough video to all the vets to make sure the decks, rooms, ladders, stairs and hatch positions seem "close enough". Tomorrow I also want to start modelling the 24"x38" watertight hatches. Thats gonna be a PAIN because I want to animate the gearing system that locks them. I want the alpha version interior to be so amazing that Epic Games wont refuse me at least a 2500$ grant. https://www.unrealengine.com/unrealdevgrants
I downloaded some amazing creative commons models too of 50's cars, architecture, planes, so many things I cant even begin to list them and havnt even started to sort them for github yet. I'm going to start putting together some cutscene clips soon. (In case you guys havnt noticed I jump around from one thing to the other especially when your a one man & few helpers team.
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Old 03-01-15, 10:31 AM   #60
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That screen capture of the curtain doesn't look bad!

And as for the Developer's grant, I hope you get it! Before you apply for it, perhaps we can get some publicity for your project by way of interviews with game reviewers in which you can talk about the project and your communication with the ol' salts who used to sail the Nautilus in making it as realistic as possible.

-----

I don't particularly need anything and I don't want to de-rail your thread anymore, though it is now the most active thread in the Indie forum

I will ask Neal if I can create a thread in this forum about a non-Naval game and share a little bit of what I'm working on.
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