[TEC] Opinions

[Bubblehead1980]

Something that has always annoyed me is how when IJN 25 MM AA guns are used as surface weapons how quickly they damage the submarines hull. These were relatively light projectiles and do not believe a few hits would erode the hull integrity the way seems to do. Honestly, it is one element that makes moving inside large convoys on surface at night still a bit too risky in most cases without blinding the enemy ships, which would make the sim boring of course.

In reality, subs took fire sometimes and while the big guns rarely hit, machine gun (which is what most merchants should have) and autocannon fire from merchants was more a threat to topside crew and external equipment than the hull. Correct? Opinions?

Also, which files can adjust this? I have searched for the files and can not seem to locate them, not clearly labeled as so many things in SH 4 lol. Thinking the the level of armor they penetrate is too high and needs to be lowered.

[propbeanie]

I agree with you somewhat about the IJN 25mm, although it is a rather large bullet. It was not very accurate, and its rate of fire was not so hot, as well as being cumbersome to load (from what I have read). Ducimus "tuned" those to dissuade a player from surface engagements for the most part. To change it, you need to find the ammunition used in it. According to a randomly picked ship (NKMCS_Heito in FotRSU), the "call" for the weapon is "25mm_Single_base_Jp". A "search" for that in the Library folder turns up a "hit" in "\ShipParts \guns_radar.dat". The triple and double are in there also, as well as the turrets - in FotRSU anyway. TMO is liable to be different in this regard. In the FotRSU example, the "25mm_Single_base_Jp" is "109:node:". I copy its "Id: 0x00adaf8e5dd5c375", and then 'search' on that in the sim file, which gets me "20:wpn_Cannon" parent in the sim file. 21 is the settings node, and under that in the "ammo_storage" section is "AP" and "AA" section that have hex numbers. The "HE" and "SS" are both 0x0, or NULL. You would not be concerned with the AA ammunition, so a 'search' on the "0x3a65f923c98196cc" for the AP (Armour Piercing) in the Shells.dat file. Again though - this is in this FotRSU example - you might find the ammunition in a "Shells_IJN.dat" file, or maybe one of the others. Anyway, when you find your 'hit' for the 'search' in a shells.dat file, open the zon file for it, and find that same hex address in it. Edit the settings node for what you are after...

Now, I went through all of the 'search' stuff because if TMO is anything like FotRSU, which FotRSU is based on TMO, there are a LOT of substitutions for weapons and ammunition, as well as other parts and pieces. You could edit the 25mm ammunition found in the Shells_IJN.zon till you are blue in the face, and all to no avail... finding that address from the gun dat is key, but finding a hit in the shells files is done from within the files. ie: you have to open them up to be able to 'search' in them with the S3D "Ctrl-F" Find function - unless Jeff-Groves comes along and can set you up with an 010 Editor script, or do some "hex magic" for you... The "value" you are looking for is binary, and a text editor search will not find that address for you. I should point out, of course, that you should realize that altering the shell in this situation, does it for ALL guns that use the 20mm shell, including your sub's. Not cool. Another option (in the FotRSU case) is to point the gun at the correct 25mm ammunition, and then tune that ammo to what you want... again though, you want to be certain of what uses that particular ammo before doing something willy-nilly, and willy can be pilly... In this case, it might actually be easier to give the conn a few more points of armor, or maybe afford the crew positions a few more points... so many choices!

[Jeff-Groves]

All damage by any Shell is in the connected zon file.
S3D is kind of lacking in any search function as you need to search the proper file!
So your gonna waste a lot of time hoping the zon is correctly named for the intended Gun shell you want to modify.
You can have multiple guns under different Names that use the exact same shell!

I'd use IDFinder by GWX. Pretty sure that was released.
If you need it I can provide a Link.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/g6ncb...Finder.7z/file

[propbeanie]

Excellent! Thank you Jeff-Groves!




you young-ins might not appreciate old folk music...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

All damage by any Shell is in the connected zon file.
S3D is kind of lacking in any search function as you need to search the proper file!
So your gonna waste a lot of time hoping the zon is correctly named for the intended Gun shell you want to modify.
You can have multiple guns under different Names that use the exact same shell!

I'd use IDFinder by GWX. Pretty sure that was released.
If you need it I can provide a Link.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/g6ncb...Finder.7z/file

Thanks Jeff!

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I agree with you somewhat about the IJN 25mm, although it is a rather large bullet. It was not very accurate, and its rate of fire was not so hot, as well as being cumbersome to load (from what I have read). Ducimus "tuned" those to dissuade a player from surface engagements for the most part. To change it, you need to find the ammunition used in it. According to a randomly picked ship (NKMCS_Heito in FotRSU), the "call" for the weapon is "25mm_Single_base_Jp". A "search" for that in the Library folder turns up a "hit" in "\ShipParts \guns_radar.dat". The triple and double are in there also, as well as the turrets - in FotRSU anyway. TMO is liable to be different in this regard. In the FotRSU example, the "25mm_Single_base_Jp" is "109:node:". I copy its "Id: 0x00adaf8e5dd5c375", and then 'search' on that in the sim file, which gets me "20:wpn_Cannon" parent in the sim file. 21 is the settings node, and under that in the "ammo_storage" section is "AP" and "AA" section that have hex numbers. The "HE" and "SS" are both 0x0, or NULL. You would not be concerned with the AA ammunition, so a 'search' on the "0x3a65f923c98196cc" for the AP (Armour Piercing) in the Shells.dat file. Again though - this is in this FotRSU example - you might find the ammunition in a "Shells_IJN.dat" file, or maybe one of the others. Anyway, when you find your 'hit' for the 'search' in a shells.dat file, open the zon file for it, and find that same hex address in it. Edit the settings node for what you are after...

Now, I went through all of the 'search' stuff because if TMO is anything like FotRSU, which FotRSU is based on TMO, there are a LOT of substitutions for weapons and ammunition, as well as other parts and pieces. You could edit the 25mm ammunition found in the Shells_IJN.zon till you are blue in the face, and all to no avail... finding that address from the gun dat is key, but finding a hit in the shells files is done from within the files. ie: you have to open them up to be able to 'search' in them with the S3D "Ctrl-F" Find function - unless Jeff-Groves comes along and can set you up with an 010 Editor script, or do some "hex magic" for you... The "value" you are looking for is binary, and a text editor search will not find that address for you. I should point out, of course, that you should realize that altering the shell in this situation, does it for ALL guns that use the 20mm shell, including your sub's. Not cool. Another option (in the FotRSU case) is to point the gun at the correct 25mm ammunition, and then tune that ammo to what you want... again though, you want to be certain of what uses that particular ammo before doing something willy-nilly, and willy can be pilly... In this case, it might actually be easier to give the conn a few more points of armor, or maybe afford the crew positions a few more points... so many choices!

Well I won't nerf them completely, thye will still be a threat in form can damage equipment and kill your crew but a 25mm penetrating the hull and wounding crew? bit much lol.

I just finished patrol earlier today, ran into MI-11 convoy (Parche attacked 31 July 44, also known as Ramage's Rampage as in "Red" Ramage") in Luzon Straits. Caught some 20 and 25 MM auto fire from a merchant at 2100 yards (had just torpedoed ship in front of him) and a few hits from a chasing escort. No heavy stuff, just a few auto rounds. 8 percent hull damage, after three more attacks through the night, a chasing escort hit the stern a few times with 25 mm, put me up to 14 percent hull damage. That is just too much, far beyond what they could do a steel hulled ship that can dive to 600 plsu feet lol. Equipment damage yes, injure or kill crew, yes but hull? No. Glad was out of torpedoes, trying to continue patrol like that is really risky as would take a lot of depth capability from the Balao Class.

Ideally I will use the tool Jeff linked to, set the 25 20 mm jp guns where they cant eat away at the hull, probably set where can pierce armor heavier than the subs (12.0 armor). I don't want to increase armor on subs, they will be like tanks. Have a nice balance now. Really think most merchants should just have their deck guns and machine guns, some larger ones have 25 MM AA gun maybe. No JP machine gun in the sim I am aware of though.