All those not buying SH5 please move along.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I do smile, though, through all the posts about this, that no one ever damns the pirates, both pro and casual.

My guess is that most of people here got much more sympathy for pirates than for Ubisoft.

The problem is that pirates don't create submarine simulations.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by Méo

My guess is that most of people here got much more sympathy for pirates than for Ubisoft.

Hmmmm... in a few cases "some" of their work is... ehm... "useful"
but most of the things these people doi just turns me off.

[Thomen]

I must have a deja vu or something..

Maybe I should just repost everything from the other thread..

@Trenken

With all due respect, your opinion is very much welcome here.


If you care to take a look, some of the main points in the exchanges yesterday and the day before were because of:

a. the arguments you made, which when proven faulty or flawed you did not even wanted discuss, but outright dismissed or ignored arguments against them

b. your attitude towards the other members here

c. your absolute dismissal of other peoples opinion. Regardless of circumstances, arguments or facts

and plus some other points.

You want to buy SH5 as it is and you support such a DRM, sorry OSP: Hat's up to you.

But do not talk down to people who do not support such a scheme and be prepared to defend your arguments if you start or participate in a discussion.

Furthermore, I advice that you might want to think about your wording a bit. I just looked over at the ubi forums, and noticed you show the same attitude and receive the same reception as you got here. So, it seems it is hardly just our fault alone for what happened.

Sorry, that had to be said.. imo, of course

[KL-alfman]

Originally Posted by trenken

Thats your opinion. Many of us that own some DRM games have found some nice advantages to it. For me the primary one would be I love not having my save files on my machine. They are protected on a server so that if my machine decides to meltdown on me, I dont look months or years of progress. Big fan of that.

hi, trenken, until now I haven't responded to your snotty attitude towards many of the members here, but this got me curious:
do you tell me that you don't own a private back-up-management? sorry to say, but this is soooo 20th-century-ish that I feel only sorry for you. you know, the world is moving, people like you will just left behind, it's just your problem. if you don't like that adapt!
your fight against back-upping your system sucks and smells like dirty old pants.
move on! go with the flow!

[tater]

Originally Posted by Méo

My guess is that most of people here got much more sympathy for pirates than for Ubisoft.

The problem is that pirates don't create submarine simulations.

I have zero sympathy for thieves. Personally a thief is a thief to me, so I'm fine with doing to them what I'd do to a thief trying to break into my house (I live in the US, and yes, I'd try to drop him on the brick floors so that the blood would be easier to mop up instead of the carpet).

[JScones]

Originally Posted by cherbert

Well I for one am getting sick of this place now. If Neil wants to continue to allow this nonsense them I'm gone. I strongly believe he is making a big mistake allowing this to happen in this forum.

Seeya.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by cherbert

Can all the whiners who are not buying SH5 please leave and go back to the SH3 and SH4 forums you really are polluting the threads in here.

I bet half of you are hypocrites and will buy the game and are simply jumping on the anti-drm bandwagon.

Yes DRM sucks - but all I'm interested in at the moment is the excitement of what looks to be a an amazing leap forward in Submarine simulations and all I want to do is share that with like minded individuals who are as excited as I am. I always thought that was what subsim.com was all about.

The announced modding features virtually mean we are not a million miles from having what looks like a full SDK. Should we not be excited about this?

If you aren't buying it then move along - you don't need to be here.

Failing that can Neil create a forum called SH5 - Anti-DRM campaign. And leave the rest of us to look forward to this game in peace.

Not here to start a fight but Cherbert, your post reminds me of people who just hate to fight for anything at all, so are willing to take whatever someone sends your way, even if it violates your rights.

Most of us are upset about DRM and are making noise with legitimate arguments to stop this crap being shoved down our throats by UBI.Ever hear the give an inch, they will take a mile? Well this is true in many things in life an absolutely true here.Say we all just stop the so called "whining", bent over and took this with a smile, well UBI would say okay they like it and everything they make will be DRM.

Even though I prefer fleetboats I planned to purchase SH 5, give it a try and support the franchise, so UBI has incentive to make a SH 6 and take us back to the PTO with all the improvements of SH 5 such as a fully modeled sub etc.

For me and many, it boils down to the principle of the matter, FREEDOM to use the product I purchased with my own money the way I want it.Years later if I decided to sell the game to someone else because I am finished with it, I should be able to without any BS from the people who long ago got my money. Grievances can be aired on any forum in any thread when responding, if one does not like it, much like violence and sex on TV, change the channel meaning go to a different forum.End of story, have a nice day.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Jaeger

you are against it, most people arent.

Are you serious? Do you have facts or real data sources to say that??
Because this system is impopular for some reasons. Impopular means that the majority don't like it, which I conclude from all the reading I've been doing lately.

While they might be clouding a little too many threads, I think it's fair they voice their anger for some bad decision of those that, in exchange for our money, should be providing a quality service. Unless you think we're a bunch of morons, and that we should all settle down for crappy or unlikeable stuff.

Cheers

[Turbografx]

Originally Posted by Jaeger

conclusion: please stop dashing the forum with your complains. take one thread for this and stop changing each thread to a drm discussion. you are against it, most people arent.

Negative.

76% say they aren't going to get it at all as long as it has OSP DRM, 13% say they will wait and see. Only 11% are going to buy anyway.

[Bubblehead1980]

Most are for DRM? you are kidding I hope.

kind of like a certain american political party saying most citizens are for govt run healthcare when pretty much every poll shows we are NOT.Some people just are not in touch with reality because it does not suite their opinion or agenda.

Not starting a political discussion, just pointing out how how some chose to live in their own reality.

[cherbert]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Not here to start a fight but Cherbert, your post reminds me of people who just hate to fight for anything at all, so are willing to take whatever someone sends your way, even if it violates your rights.

Most of us are upset about DRM and are making noise with legitimate arguments to stop this crap being shoved down our throats by UBI.Ever hear the give an inch, they will take a mile? Well this is true in many things in life an absolutely true here.Say we all just stop the so called "whining", bent over and took this with a smile, well UBI would say okay they like it and everything they make will be DRM.

Even though I prefer fleetboats I planned to purchase SH 5, give it a try and support the franchise, so UBI has incentive to make a SH 6 and take us back to the PTO with all the improvements of SH 5 such as a fully modeled sub etc.

For me and many, it boils down to the principle of the matter, FREEDOM to use the product I purchased with my own money the way I want it.Years later if I decided to sell the game to someone else because I am finished with it, I should be able to without any BS from the people who long ago got my money. Grievances can be aired on any forum in any thread when responding, if one does not like it, much like violence and sex on TV, change the channel meaning go to a different forum.End of story, have a nice day.

I see no reason to fight it because I see it as being the future of things and not worth fighting.

Internet speeds are increasing so much that soon you will be able to download or watch pretty much anything on-demand. The gaming industry is going the same way. All these games companies are now reduced to a few mega corporations. Their sole interest is in making money and preventing piracy.

It may seem like its a long way off but its not really - once most things are available on-demand through various channels people will slowly stop buying DVD's and Blu-ray films because they know its on tap when they need it.

I'm all for wanting to own my own copy of a blu-ray or dvd movie. I love to hold a CD in my hand. I love to have a copy of SH3 and SH4 sitting on my shelf in a neat row with all my other purchased games. But the fact is the times are changing - I'm just not bothered about fighting it. I use Steam - I use video on demand services - I use XBOX Live - I understand this on-line to use economy, I haven't been let down by it. I play lots of MMO's - Its become the norm for many people.

I bet you this year you will see Apple announce a one flat fee for iTunes for all the music you want. I bet you need to be connected to hear your music.

I do understand there are people who don't have internet - I do understand there are people who have very poor internet. I'm not dismissing these people - but the mega corporations obviously are. I see and understand your passion for fighting them. And I hope you succeed.

Many fights have been won both here and elsewhere on the internet - but every year that goes by the fights becomes more impossible as these greedy companies get bigger and more focused on the numbers.

Lets face it, SH5 was clearly designed from the ground up to be accessible to the masses. This fact makes us lot here insignificant - especially if there is a plan to release this on XBOX. We made a difference with SH3 dynamic campaign mainly because things were different back then.

However, I apologise if my original post was a bit harsh - my main message was meant to be please stop polluting the DRM issue all over the forum. And I was starting to feel passionate that we had all lost sight in this potentially great simulation due to hit the shelves.

It doesn't excuse some of you anti-DRM people from sarcastic replies and nasty comments. So bloody what if I have only made 64 posts? I have read hundreds of thousands and donated a few times to access the download here. I have always been a keen visitor and supporter. I don't expect to be jumped on just because I don't post regularly. I bet there are lots of other people on here who just come to read and occasionally chip in. Doesn't mean they are not a valued member of the subsim community. Neil used to be quite strict about the atmosphere here - seems he doesn't care anymore.

(Post 66 - Am I worthy yet or do I need a few more thousand?)

[IanC]

cherbert you keep talking about "on-demand" and "it's the future"... how much is getting chained to Ubi servers to play a single player game, 'on-demand' by anybody? Masses or expert simmers. Nobody wants it, nobody likes it. Your whole argument doesn't stand up, sorry.
DRM/OSP whatever it's called, is not the future, it's a mistake. Like Windows Millenium or The Godfather Part 3.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by IanC

Like Windows Millenium or The Godfather Part 3.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by cherbert

IIt doesn't excuse some of you anti-DRM people from sarcastic replies and nasty comments. So bloody what if I have only made 64 posts? I have read hundreds of thousands and donated a few times to access the download here. I have always been a keen visitor and supporter. I don't expect to be jumped on just because I don't post regularly. I bet there are lots of other people on here who just come to read and occasionally chip in. Doesn't mean they are not a valued member of the subsim community. Neil used to be quite strict about the atmosphere here - seems he doesn't care anymore.

I still care. Considering the situation, I think the atmosphere is still acceptable. I, Webs, and Takeda have been spending a lot of time and energy working with people in these discussions with minimal interference and discplinary action, to maintain a civil atmosphere. You were jumped on because 1. You threw down a pretty provacative position and 2. there is some kind of internet herd mentality that dominates most people and compels them to respond with ever more harshness: I diagree with him and most people disagree with him--pile on!"

But I think you will find most people here will shake hands and walk away in the end.

[Rip]

Originally Posted by cherbert

I see no reason to fight it because I see it as being the future of things and not worth fighting.

Internet speeds are increasing so much that soon you will be able to download or watch pretty much anything on-demand. The gaming industry is going the same way. All these games companies are now reduced to a few mega corporations. Their sole interest is in making money and preventing piracy.

It may seem like its a long way off but its not really - once most things are available on-demand through various channels people will slowly stop buying DVD's and Blu-ray films because they know its on tap when they need it.

I'm all for wanting to own my own copy of a blu-ray or dvd movie. I love to hold a CD in my hand. I love to have a copy of SH3 and SH4 sitting on my shelf in a neat row with all my other purchased games. But the fact is the times are changing - I'm just not bothered about fighting it. I use Steam - I use video on demand services - I use XBOX Live - I understand this on-line to use economy, I haven't been let down by it. I play lots of MMO's - Its become the norm for many people.

I bet you this year you will see Apple announce a one flat fee for iTunes for all the music you want. I bet you need to be connected to hear your music.

I do understand there are people who don't have internet - I do understand there are people who have very poor internet. I'm not dismissing these people - but the mega corporations obviously are. I see and understand your passion for fighting them. And I hope you succeed.

Many fights have been won both here and elsewhere on the internet - but every year that goes by the fights becomes more impossible as these greedy companies get bigger and more focused on the numbers.

Lets face it, SH5 was clearly designed from the ground up to be accessible to the masses. This fact makes us lot here insignificant - especially if there is a plan to release this on XBOX. We made a difference with SH3 dynamic campaign mainly because things were different back then.

However, I apologise if my original post was a bit harsh - my main message was meant to be please stop polluting the DRM issue all over the forum. And I was starting to feel passionate that we had all lost sight in this potentially great simulation due to hit the shelves.

It doesn't excuse some of you anti-DRM people from sarcastic replies and nasty comments. So bloody what if I have only made 64 posts? I have read hundreds of thousands and donated a few times to access the download here. I have always been a keen visitor and supporter. I don't expect to be jumped on just because I don't post regularly. I bet there are lots of other people on here who just come to read and occasionally chip in. Doesn't mean they are not a valued member of the subsim community. Neil used to be quite strict about the atmosphere here - seems he doesn't care anymore.

(Post 66 - Am I worthy yet or do I need a few more thousand?)

I don't think any of the "anti-DRM" people if you want to call them that have a problem with any of those services/methods. I use STEAM myself and prefer to by a game with it. I don't even have a problem with it staying connected even when I am playing single player.

The problem becomes when I have to. If STEAM didn't have an offline mode. I wouldn't use it. Period. I refuse to tether my ability to play single player games to my internet connection. I live in a hurricane zone and when they hit and the internet is down for weeks. That is no time to lose my ability to game. It is when I need it the most.

[rant]

If the stupid lazy idiots that came up with this crap would have done a little surveying or contemplating they would have realized there is a very good reason STEAM has an offline mode. Why don't we ask someone to poll the decision makers at STEAM and see if they think it would be a good idea to remove offline mode. Not one of them would consider it. Seems to me that is why everyone is so afraid of them.

They aren't idiots like the rest of the industry appears to be.

EA and UbiSoft execs would chase a dollar bill out the window of an office on the 50th floor.

[/rant]