The all purpose terrorism thread featuring plenty of allah akbar

[Torplexed]

Looks like they've nabbed one of the suspects behind this massacre. Hopefully that won't set off another round of attacks.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35879236

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Catfish

You are of course right, however you see the reactors running in France, Germany and England are all from the 1960ies

Actually, whilst half of ours started construction in the sixties, they didn't actually become operational until at least a decade later, and they've had upgrades since to bring them up to modern safety levels.

When you think of it though, a reactor pressure vessel has to withstand internal temperatures of over 600C and pressures of over 2000psi. A bomb isn't going to cut it.

That being said, an attack on the spent fuel pool at a NPP could pose a real problem, and it would be an easier target than the reactor itself.

[Tchocky]

No flights today from BRU/EBBR.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Looks like they've nabbed one of the suspects behind this massacre. Hopefully that won't set off another round of attacks.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35879236

False alarm, sadly:

A suspect arrested in Brussels this morning was not Najim Laachraoui, thought to be one of three men in a CCTV image taken before the Zaventem airport attack, some Belgian media are now saying
The newspaper, DH, which first reported the story, says the man detained earlier on Wednesday in the Anderlecht district had been misidentified.
Police and prosecutors have not commented on the reports and are due to hold a news conference within the next hour.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Actually, whilst half of ours started construction in the sixties, they didn't actually become operational until at least a decade later, and they've had upgrades since to bring them up to modern safety levels.

When you think of it though, a reactor pressure vessel has to withstand internal temperatures of over 600C and pressures of over 2000psi. A bomb isn't going to cut it.

That being said, an attack on the spent fuel pool at a NPP could pose a real problem, and it would be an easier target than the reactor itself.

A bomb?

I'm taking a guess here but if they are from the 60's I assume they're water cooled reactors? Now I agree with you when you say safety systems are in place to prevent meltdown and they may even be somewhat bomb proof. However safety systems for water cooled reactors dont amount to a hill of beans when those systems are taken off grid and your generators are disabled.

Sure your average terrorist may not know how to operate a power plant and shut down a system by the numbers to cause a meltdown. But you dont have to be a rocket scientist to cut power and permanently disable back up systems.

Whats needed to prevent a meltdown is increased security of those key systems. But if they get by that you're screwed.



.

[Catfish]

When i heard about this terror attack in Brussels, i am first and foremost european.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

A bomb?

I'm taking a guess here but if they are from the 60's I assume they're water cooled reactors? Now I agree with you when you say safety systems are in place to prevent meltdown and they may even be somewhat bomb proof. However safety systems for water cooled reactors dont amount to a hill of beans when those systems are taken off grid and your generators are disabled.

Sure your average terrorist may not know how to operate a power plant and shut down a system by the numbers to cause a meltdown. But you dont have to be a rocket scientist to cut power and permanently disable back up systems.

Whats needed to prevent a meltdown is increased security of those key systems. But if they get by that you're screwed.



.

I see what you mean, because of the decay heat effect, perhaps if the terrorist used some form of device which restricted access to the reactor area for a few days, an NBC device, that might do it, but otherwise even if power to the reactor was lost, the control rods would drop under gravity (unless it's a BWR in which case they have to use a hydraulic method but nearly all the BWRs in western Europe are being decommed anyway) which would buy you some time to get coolant into the reactor to reduce the decay heat.
The fuel rod pool is a bit harder, you'd need a whole load of fire engines constantly dropping water in it to make sure it didn't dry up if the pool wall happens to get cracked. The release of radioactive water into the nearby environment would be bad, but not as bad as what would happen if the fuel rods were exposed.

I'll grant that it is possible, no system is perfect and there are weak points in every design. It could be done, it wouldn't happen immediately since the control rods would buy some time, but if the response teams couldn't re-establish coolant in the 24 hours after the attack then the chances of a meltdown raise significantly.

[Rockstar]

It's what happened at the Fukushima power plant. A tsunami took it off the grid and destroyed the back systems and didn't take very long to awaken Godzilla.

Security wise I can only imagine. But Id guess its like any safe, not perfect and can be cracked. A safe's security rating is based on the amount of time it takes to open it and is only meant to increase the crooks chances of getting caught before he or she can breech it. But it can be breeched.


.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

On what planet have you lived in the past years?

It is not even the first attack in Belgium alone. In May 2014, two Algerians with French passports returned from Syria and opened fire in a Jewish museum in Brussels, leaving four dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._attacks#2010s

A list limited to terror strikes in European states alone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror...European_Union

And that list does not include those plots that were spoiled in time. If these would not have been spoiled, there would have been several major events in Germany already as well.

I meant for the day. In short, no additional bombings across the city/country as see in Paris with several spots/shooters.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

It's what happened at the Fukushima power plant. A tsunami took it off the grid and destroyed the back systems and didn't take very long to awaken Godzilla.

Security wise I can only imagine. But Id guess its like any safe, not perfect and can be cracked. A safe's security rating is based on the amount of time it takes to open it and is only meant to increase the crooks chances of getting caught before he or she can breech it. But it can be breeched.


.

At the risk of incurring your earlier prediction, the 2011 earthquake and tsunami was a once in a millennia event, however I will admit that the poor design (which was contrary to what European and American nuclear power plant designers had advised on) also did a lot to exacerbate the situation.

I agree with your assessment on security though, there is no such thing as a perfect system, and whenever you build a mouse trap they design a bigger mouse. I think a lot of it though is deterrance, to make the mission so difficult and uncertain of success that the plotters choose an easier target. Certainly there has to be some reason that in the 15 years since 9/11 terrorists have kept to the relatively low cost but high reward suicide bomb or firearm assault tactics rather than try another aircraft hijack, train hijack or other specialist attack mechanism. Likewise there have been no mass co-ordinated attacks on infrastructure, no water supply poisoning, no chemical or biological attack, none of the grand scale mass destructive events that we all predicted would occur in the immediate aftermath of 9/11.
Now, never say never, it could well happen, and the longer this war goes on, the more likely at some point it will happen. However in the meantime, the biggest problem is how to deal with the current trend of suicide bomb and/or firearm assault because as it stands, I don't think there is a way that it can be stopped, to paraphrase a saying from the early 20th century 'The suicide bomber will always get through'.

[mapuc]

I think we should give our self a clap on our shoulder-Why-We are expert on discussing and even more discussing and throwing words and point fingers at each others

In meantime these-radical Islams get a stronger foothold In Europe.

Markus

[Oberon]

I presume by 'we' you mean the countries of Europe, rather than the members of this forum?

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I presume by 'we' you mean the countries of Europe, rather than the members of this forum?

You are right. I should have said that

It's our politicians who are expert on discussing and saying things without content.

Sorry for having pointed finger at you. What more can we, ordinary people do, other than discuss these problems

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

In meantime these-radical Islams get a stronger foothold In Europe.

Markus

The issue runs deeper as some are home grown.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

No flights today from BRU/EBBR.

Passenger flights now cancelled until Saturday. No word on cargo.