US Flagged Vessel Captured! UPDATE: Navy SEALS take out pirates

[gordonmull]

Good result. Every nation should be following America's example in this particular case. The message needs to be "Become a pirate, become dead."

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Shooting the crew doesn't get them anywhere. To make their money, they must ransom either the crew, the cargo or the ship itself. What, are four guys going to just going to operate a container ship by themselves?

True. One reason the pirates have been so successful at getting ransoms is that they've treated the crews well. If they start killing the crews they won't get anything except a ship they can't use and a bunch of cargo that they don't want.

It sounds like Obama gave the order to shoot if the captain's life was in danger, and the US sailors decided that the pirates were about to shoot. Fortunately, our guys didn't miss. Some reports have said that the captain started the whole thing when he tried to swim away, but that hasn't been confirmed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7996213.stm

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Shooting the crew doesn't get them anywhere. To make their money, they must ransom either the crew, the cargo or the ship itself. What, are four guys going to just going to operate a container ship by themselves?

The crew itself's probably not worth that much money - Easily replaced, probably don't work directly for the shipowner, and most of them are from countries where tort laws aren't up to US standards anyway. (It's probably not the country where the ship's registered, probably not the country where the company owning the ship is based and definetly not the country where the guy owning the ship lives...)

The only difference it might make is that the navy would be a lot more open to shooting, althought that would piss off the owners handsomely.

As for operating the ship, yes, four guys could do it. Especially if one of them has some engineering knowledge, or if they keep one of the engineers around to get the engine going.

When I was in nautical school, there were a lot of second and third hand stories going around of pirates offing the entire crew, or at least the captain and the chief engineer as an example. Don't know how much of that was campfire stories and how much was truth, but the stories were floating around.

Anyway, we'll find out soon enough if the pirates have changed their MOs...

[gordonmull]

It seems that the pirates do not attack in force. Why not just TRY to get every nation which is running cargo ships in the area to start randomly putting marines on them? Eventually the pirates will run into a very big problem for themselves. They won't know which ships are crewed with highly trained, well armed military and this should act as a deterrant at least.

For this to work I have to take the more violent side of things and say take no prisoners. Shoot them on sight and pursue them until they are dead . Until they learn piracy = death then they will continue to do as they do. I'd have thought that in boarding a ship you would be at the tactical disadvantage so any casualties on the marines' side should be minimal.

Between the US and the UK we've got plenty of troops in backwater countries that we had no business getting into in the first place, so why not Somalia as well? At least our men would be doing something productive for a change and it would be good training for our collective marine infantries.

Really, and sadly, these pirates do deserve to get shot for what they put merchant sailors and their families through.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Doubt it. They aren't smart enough to think it might happen again.

-S

No, the pirates have pretty significant technological sophistication with all things considered. With their satellite phones and laptops, news is probably spreading pretty quickly between the pirate communities. So while they may not fall for the same trick twice, it is a double-edged sword because a) this situation was extremely unusual anyway and has never happened before in recent history and b) news of the military's firm handling is also circulating; the deterrent is starting to gain credibility.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by Etienne

When I was in nautical school, there were a lot of second and third hand stories going around of pirates offing the entire crew, or at least the captain and the chief engineer as an example. Don't know how much of that was campfire stories and how much was truth, but the stories were floating around.

These kinds of events were not unusual about 20-30 years ago when piracy was a bit bigger around Latin America and the west coast of Africa. Rapes, murders, and assaults were a little more common, especially in attacks on ships anchored in port. For good and fairly graphic accounts of these kinds of violent attacks may I recommend Piracy Today: Robbery and Violence at Sea Since 1980 by the late Cpt. Roger Villar. Villar compiled several pretty thrilling reports of raids on yachts and other pleasure craft that end tragically.

Modern piracy is a pretty bloodless affair, though. Casualties to piracy in the last five years are in the single digits. As someone else said (maybe Takeda), they are not ideologically motivated. To inflict mass casualties is not an objective.

Anyway, we'll find out soon enough if the pirates have changed their MOs...

Yeah, the figures for the first quarter of 2009 should be out in the next few months.

[SandyCaesar]

Originally Posted by mr chris

Hats off to the USA for being a country with a no nonsense attitude to these pirate scumbags. Hopefully the rest of the world will take heed of there lead, When it comes to deal with scum like this.

I'm afraid I have to correct you. The French have been carrying out commando raids for a while, maybe not as immediately dramatic as the Americans but equally gutsy. Unfortunately, the last one just a few days ago didn't go quite as planned and led to a hostage KIA. I don't think the commandos would object if the pirates get hanged at the yardarm for murder.

Regardless, that was an extremely bold play on the US part that paid off. Now, if all hands will brace and stick to the guns when the rather noisy threats of retaliation come, I think the antipiracy mission is in good shape.

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by mr chris

Hopefully the rest of the world will take heed of there lead, When it comes to deal with scum like this.

You won't believe, but the French have been dealing with them the same way for some time now, and have several succesful "anti-pirate" ops under their belt. The most recent was just days ago, and while four hostages were rescued one was unfortunately killed.

Maybe the French have run out of white flags

edit: Damnit, just a bit too slow

[nikimcbee]

I think India has also attacked a ship or two a few months ago.

[Freiwillige]

Great job! Now we need to Make an international kill zone saying that any unknown vessal will be sunk 50 miles or more off shore on sight. Time to get hard with these thugs. And also why are we feeding them. Sorry if you cant feed em, dont breed em. Enough of this "we are the world crap." Nature is a cruel mistress and its time we let her run her course. Cause giving aid is one thing, Giving endless aid without fixing the underlying problems is another.

[Letum]

It seams piracy isn't the only crime in Somali waters.
Radioactive hospital waste traceable back to Europe has been washing up on
the beaches and foreign boats often trawl illegally in the unprotected Somali
waters, contributing to the lack of fish and near-famine there. No wonder
some groups of pirate groups are calling them selves the "National Volunteer
Coast Guard of Somalia".

The recent success against the pirated is a justice, but the region could do
with a lot more justice.

[Onkel Neal]

Rescue Fuels Debate Over Arming Crews

But the expanding range and seafaring skills of Somali pirates are prompting some experts to start calling for changes. The killing by United States Navy sharpshooters of three Somali pirates during the rescue on Sunday of Richard Phillips, the American captain of the container ship Maersk Alabama, has further raised the stakes, with at least one Somali pirate on shore threatening vengeance on the next American seafarer captured.

Honestly, I don't see why the US Navy just doesn't enforce a Somali no-sail zone. Somalia has no real government, just sink anything that hits the water over knee deep.

I can't see why the nations with warships in the area don't set up Q-Ships and put special forces types on random ships transiting the area , after the first few pirate attacks get stomped ,'the badguy's are going start wondering 'Is this a normal unprotected ship or are we going to get killed?" , And it would be alot cheaper than arming every crew or escorting every ship.

[Letum]

Honestly, I don't see why the US Navy just doesn't enforce a Somali no-sail zone. Somalia has no real government, just sink anything that hits the water over knee deep.

That's inhumane.

Where does one start?
Firstly that would penalise and kill civilians for more than it would pirates,
not least because Somalia has been in a famine, or on the brink of one,
since the late '80s and the dwindling fish stocks on the Somali coast, that
are not being illegally fished by foreign vessels, is a major food source for
Somalia.
Have you no respect for innocent life?
Have you no respect for National sovereignty or international law? Just
because America can attack civilian boats in dismembered 3rd world
countries and cause mass starvation, doesn't mean it would ever be right
to do so.
Have you no consideration for the way this would further tarnish the,
already dim, view the vast majority of the world rightly has for your nation?

Why the 'cowboy' attitude to foreign policy so many Americans and
American leaders have?

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Rescue Fuels Debate Over Arming Crews



Honestly, I don't see why the US Navy just doesn't enforce a Somali no-sail zone. Somalia has no real government, just sink anything that hits the water over knee deep.

An excellent article. One of the best I've read on the subject.

The problem with a no-sail zone is picking out the legit fishermen. You start killing those people, their familly starve, their sons grow up and decide to avenge their fathers... Yeah. Last ship I was on, we had (for some reason) a guide to distinguishing Somali fishermen from pirates. It wasn't as simple as "shoot everyone wearing a ski mask".

A few helicopter carriers patrolling the areas, possibly setting their AIS to look like merchant ships... And something like an AWAC looking for swarms of small crafts. That might do the trick.