For 9/11 Conspiracy nutters! This for U

[joea]

Originally Posted by August

You have to understand Joe, that people like the Noob aren't here to debate issues or gain a better understanding of different viewpoints, they are here for the sole purpose of jerking peoples chains into getting angry. It's our disgust and irritation they feed upon.

Because of this you can make the strongest argument possible and they will ignore it. You can counter their wild accusations with facts and figures and it won't matter one bit to them. It's not that they can't see your point, they just refuse to, because if they did that would stop the fun they're having.

Well August, your responses for the most part show me you are a person I would gladly have a beer with, even if we disagree on a many (not all) things. Most others here are the same. I have real world friends with whom I have had some big arguments on politcs and history but we remain good friends.

@ N00b you might be a nice guy with a silly edge I find amusing, but the fact you ignored the arguments in my post (which are about history and don't involve the United States directly) to respond directly to August shows me you are obsessed with attacking the US and Americans. This even to the point of ignoring certain historical facts or posters like myself, who are not American, even share some of your opinions but don't want to go to the same extreme and show some nuance.

[Fish]

back to topic.

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives...secrater-X.gif

[tycho102]

This is worth some kind of correlation:
Steel girders don't melt when exposed to burning liquid.

It was the Navy using resonance charges. They're still pissed about Almeda and that ship museum.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

........ just end this thread already... already had a s***storm about it... who cares about them it happened years ago in the PAST... lets forget and move on..

edit: and y is subserpent banned?? did he talk to much smack?? (PWNED lol had to say that)

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

........ just end this thread already... already had a s***storm about it... who cares about them it happened years ago in the PAST... lets forget and move on..

This coming from someone linking to crackpot 911 conspiracy sites here on the forum not too long ago.

The truth hurts.

It's just sad that someone has to bother telling a bunch of nutters "we told you so" for something relatively rational.

[Tchocky]

The tragedy of the Internet......everyone can get at it

My God, the traffic on this site....80 posts....1400 views

[jumpy]

Looks like too many people here just can't resist having a dig when they feel the opportunity is ripe... no real surprise for the usual suspects there then, eh?

Were it not from so many established members it would be laughable. Unfortunately, it is, so it isn't even remotely amusing; just disappointingly revealing.

Have yourselves a miserable 'one star' rating. This thread gets a big from me.

[Safe-Keeper]

1.The Project For a New American Century publishes an article in the mid-90's calling for an invasion of Iraq and recognizing that it will probably take "A Pearl Harbor-type event" to rally the nation for such an invasion.

And they were right. They made an assessment of the situation that turned out to be accurate. Your point?

As an analogy, let's say that you want a stretch of road secured against landslide. The authorities are stubborn, and you go 'it'll take a catastrophe for them to actually secure this place'. A year later, the stretch of road is hit by a landslide, and then secured. Is your quote indicative of you setting off the landslide? Nope. You made an honest assessment on how humans, when it comes to safe-guarding, almost always wait until its' too late before they get off thier asses and do something. It's a law of nature.

Likewise, it did take a 'Pearl Harbour-type event' to convince the right-wing US sheep to invade Iraq. Honest assessment. Plain and simple.

2.According to Richard Clarke, the Bush transition team didn't want to hear about al-Qaeda and wanted only briefings on Iraq. At the same time, they hosted emissaries from the Taliban in order to secure an oil pipeline deal to connect the oil fields of Central Asia to the Indian subcontinent. They promote closer ties to Pakistan and their Interservices Intelligence Agency who not only financed and promoted the Taliban but also had members linked to providing money to the 9/11 hijackers.

Which, along with Ritter's report and the Downing Street Memo, is part of proving that they're war-mongers who used the tragedy of 9/11 for their own gain, but does not prove that they were behind 9/11.

3. As the 9 months between the inauguration and the attack unfold, Clarke's group is demoted and ignored. Meanwhile, alarm bells are sounding around the nation as FBI reports Muslim men taking flight school instructions only in flying without training in take-offs or landings. According to Woodward's new book, Condoleeza Rice as National Security Advisor is told in July by both Tenant and Negroponte that al-Qaeda is planning an attack in the US using hijacked airliners as weapons. We also have the Presidential Daily Briefing in August warning of similar attacks. All of these warnings are ignored and minimized.

See point #1. Governments neglect people all the time. Bush and his predessesors ignored the danger of attack from ibn Ladin and 3000 people died as a result. Just like thousands of other politicians and bureaucrats have neglected dangers in the past. But this does not mean they were behind the attack. Being neglective of a threat and being in charge of the threat are two different things.

4.The attacks happen and the US goes into Afghanistan. However, they use local surrogate militias under the alleigance of local warlords allowing the top al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders to escape Tora Bora into Pakistan's Northwest Frontier.

Strategic mistakes are incriminative now? I suppose the French wanted the Germans to invade them, then? I suppose the US wanted Pearl Harbour to be bombed. I suppose that when the policemen failed to catch Cho before he shot 31 more people, it was because they wanted him to shoot 32 more people.

Or it's that Bush didn't care much about ibn Ladin. Even so, it doesn't mean he was behind 9/11. It just proves he's got his priorities messed up.

5. Taliban and al-Qaeda prisoners that are captured are tortured, providing unreliable information that is used by the Bush administration to make their case for the war in Iraq. Rumsfeld draws down troop levels from Afghanistan and prepares to invade Iraq.

We all (well, most of us) know the US wanted to invade Iraq. This does not prove they were behind 9/11.

6. The US goes into Iraq with the fig leaf of the Coalition of the Willing. The Army they send is enough to defeat the Iraqi Army, but not enough to secure order in the country.
They disband the Iraqi Army and send the troops home with their arms while looting breaks out. Rumsfeld dismisses the looting as normal. The Coalition Provisional Authority is organised to run Iraqi reconstruction, but the main Hiring executive, Jim O'Beirne is more interested in hiring Bush loyalists than in hiring expeienced and competent people with backgrounds in such reconstruction. Halliburton and other US corporations are given no-bid contracts. In the ensuing months, billions of dollars disappear. The companies tasked with reconstruction hire people from other third-world countries instead of Iraqis fueling the growth of the insurgency.

In short: The US invades a stable dictatorship and turns it into a civil war-ridden anarchy, causing the deaths of untold numbers of innocents and sacrifcing thousands of US servicemen.

Now tell me how it proves he was behind 9/11. I'm waiting.

7. As the insurgency developsand increases [goes on to elaborate on torture, failure to control Iraq, and so on

Look, we already estabilished they're incompetent. Now prove they were behind 9/11.

8. [more of the same

Er, 9/11?

No. Wait a minute. You forgot Bush invaded Iraq for the sole purpose to steal their oil and enrich his friends at halliburton. I think that's how it goes.

Pretty much.
Downing Street Memo. Condensed form.
Ritter's reports. <- He's worth reading up on. Really. He was in charge of finding WMDs in Iraq, and his own reports fly in the face of everything reported by FAUX News and the GOP.

There's what I love about the US. The civil debates. The way leftists and rightists get along and debate maturely instead of resorting to bigotted insults and generalizations.

Oh, and a side note: Bronze age religion and modern-day politics... don't go very well together. Bronze-age bigotry ('heathen') and modern-day societies don't go well together either.

At least I can vote.

Wow.

I am a Republican because I don't agree with the Dems policy of raising taxes to provide funds for welfare and other give aways.

Let me try to be civil here:

The US is fighting a war. Wars cost money. Without money, the troops don't get supplies, weapons, and machinery needed to fight. Without money, they drive around in Baghdad in Humvees armoured with plywood and communicate with Motorolas - litterally. Without money, they don't secure Iraq.

You can't lower taxes during wartime when your country is already in a deficit. This is why Dubya is taking flak - not becuase he's not giving people enough welfare, but because he's lowering the taxes of those who don't need tax cuts so that he can gain voters among the rich.

I, and many others I know, have been greatly helped by welfare systems, and beg to differ. Welfare gets you back up on your feet, and provides for you until you can provide for yourself. Though, of course, the volunteering spirit of the USA is nothing short of a shining, outstanding example for the rest of the world to follow, and the European countries need to pick up on it.

Oh, and Avon Lady? Sweden stills ranks as number 5 on the HDI list. Above the USA. Norways ranks as number 1. Iceland ranks as number 2. The US is all the way down at 8. The HDI is measured in:

• A long and healthy life, as measured by life expectancy at birth.
• Knowledge, as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weight) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weight).
• A decent standard of living, as measured by the log of gross domestic product (GDP) per capita at purchasing power parity (PPP) in USD.

The evil leftists have catapulted Norway and Sweden into a third world state of long, healthy lives, knowledge and litteracy rates, and high standards of living. Can I move to Israel?

[robbo180265]

OMG it's off again

[joea]

Geeez Safekeeper, did you notice when this thread started why drag it up again???

[Heibges]

The only "conspiracy" is why didn't the American Airline Industry use the same procedures that El Al has used for 30 years regarding cockpit security.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Heibges

The only "conspiracy" is why didn't the American Airline Industry use the same procedures that El Al has used for 30 years regarding cockpit security.

The procedures start at pre-check-in. In its most elementary form, it's called profiling, although there's much more added to that.

If they're on the plane, there's a good chance you're too late.

[joea]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

If they're on the plane, there's a good chance you're too late.

Indeed.

[The Avon Lady]

Do you dare visit 429thruth.com?

Hat tip: Fark.com. :rotfl: Enjoy the pic parodies. :rotfl: