A Bunch of Young Lawyers are Suing Their Law Schools Because They Don't Have Jobs - Page 6

Bubblehead1980 · 02-21-12, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Fair enough but it sure seemed like you where speaking about your current professors not your past ones the language in that Obama impeaching thread seemed to be applying your past and current experience.I am not so sure that you can say that a person is a true communist unless they actually say so from their mouth that they are.In my experience I have only met some Italians in Italy that where actually members of the Italian Communist party and that party is much more local and regional.Perhaps you have had professors that had a very liberal leaning which is all together quite different from a full blown communist.But that seems to be your world view and I would argue that both sides left and right spend a lot of time in various manners to promote their views to the masses so to speak so with that in mind it is not a bad idea to take anything you hear or see with a grain of salt keeping in mind that someone is putting their point of view on it everyone has an agenda.The notion any person a certain degree or for to the left is a pinko-commie is an overstatement I would consider it equally unfair to say that a certain degree right leaning person is a Fascist and some left learners do make this claim both sides do this to scare tactic which is poor behavior and serves only to divide people.

I was not trying to show you ill will about getting a good job though but you did come across as a little smug with your sympathy comment some of those Brooklyn Law school grads may well have also worked with law firms and made connections.Interning is not a guarantee of employment in the future necessarily.

I know one of my young cousins she started working at a law firm as a part time job in high school and got interested in paralegal work she interned and worked part time for a few different firms and it still took her almost 2 years to find employment as a paralegal.Granted a paralegal is not a lawyer but I think that the 1-2 year job search is easily the standard unless you are working in a low skills required job.

Well smug or not, I have no sympathy because it sounds like people blaming an institution for their employment woes in lieu of taking personal responsibility.Like I said, I do not expect a top notch job upon graduation despite having worked at or where I obtained my JD and employment statistics played a negligible role in my selection.

Well I had one Professor in undergrad admit he is a communist, most will not but they sound like commies.I despise left wing "thinking", it is a cancer on our society as is the far right religious nuts.People have the right to their beliefs, even though they are incorrect and have been proven so time and time again, but I have the right to point out how wrong they are and to mock, ridicule etc if I so choose.

nikimcbee · 02-21-12, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

@ bubblehead, what kind of law are you looking to get into?

August · 02-21-12, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I have the right to point out how wrong they are and to mock, ridicule etc if I so choose.

Yeah that's just what the world needs, a smart mouth lawyer who makes enemies of people he hasn't even met.

vienna · 02-21-12, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Yeah that's just what the world needs, a smart mouth lawyer who makes enemies of people he hasn't even met.

He's got a future in foreign diplomacy, perhaps?...

Stealhead · 02-21-12, 04:39 PM

"Well I had one Professor in undergrad admit he is a communist, most will not but they sound like commies.I despise left wing "thinking", it is a cancer on our society as is the far right religious nuts.People have the right to their beliefs, even though they are incorrect and have been proven so time and time again, but I have the right to point out how wrong they are and to mock, ridicule etc if I so choose."

What did you actually interrogate your professor?

I can see it now "Professor
Pinkoburg are you a leftie-pinko-commie? "Why yes Bubblehead(replace with actual name) I am a card carrying member of the Communist Party and if you do not accept my beliefs and fall in line I will report you to the Pinko Brigade!"

What makes little sense about your entire pinko leftie thing is that you have this notion that there are many people that are communists but will not admit that they are but you can believe what you want as you said nice way of showing your true colors with that mock and ridicule statement.

More than likely you just happen to encounter people of opposing political views that have your same crass attitude; I have the right to mock and ridicule people that I disagree with,I despise certain types of people nice manner of thinking gonna get you real far.

So what would you do if you where in Italy and got invited to eat with a group of communist farmers? I once got invited to a meal with some Italian farmers that where all communists it was actually one of the best meals I have ever eaten and not a word of the virtues of failures of any form of government came up at all if had your attitude I'd have missed out on one of the most enjoyable experiences in my life and not one word was mentioned about politics I know this for certain I never heard comunista uttered I did not need a translation into English to know that they had no desire to mention politics.They actually kept talking about the TV show Lassie(they had a German Sheppard named Lassie a male dog though) and about how the US fought the Germans in the region during WWII and how they where grateful that the Americans came.

Platapus · 02-21-12, 05:25 PM

Having gone up through doctoral studies, it has been my experience that the vast majority of my instructors have been moderates. I guess if someone has a far right bias, a moderate might look like a liberal.

One of my instructors described this as political parallax - where from an extremist viewpoint (right or left) most everyone seems to be the opposite.

Extremist left perceive everyone else as conservative and extremist right perceive everyone else as liberal. That's the good thing about being a moderate - everyone else is an extremist.

I have been to both "liberal" and "conservative" schools and most of my instructors have been moderates. The only "agenda" I saw being pushed was trying to understand both sides.

Stealhead · 02-22-12, 12:45 AM

It is relative from region to region a politician running as Conservative in France would be far more liberal than the majority of american liberal politicians. The Communist Italians that I ate with for example they are much more moderate and most land owners are not communist by they employ the communists for example these farmers where raising sheep for the Italian land owner he was very much a capitalist but he employed the workers and they greatly respected him he sat at the head of the largest table and was my translator.

The problem with some folks who tend to be outside moderate leanings is that they tend to see the world in black and white us vs. them and you cant do that.If the Italian capitalist land owner viewed "lefties" with Bubbleheads
eyes he would be without any employees and his business would be going no where fast.

I can recall once in a high school government class one of the local county commissioners who had been a Democrat fro many years suddenly changed his party to Republican the timing was very suspicious because the then State Representative for our region had announced that he was not going to run next term this man was a Republican so it seemed very evident that Mr. County Commissioner was eyeing that slot and felt that hed have a better chance getting the seat as a Rep. One of my classmates asked him this question and I have never seen someone stumble so badly in reaction to an unexpected question he pretty much rambled for 5 minutes never really giving a reason why he had changed parties after that day in school I never really had much faith in politicians of any stripe much less the hard core right and left ones.

iambecomelife · 02-24-12, 05:59 PM

I got myself in trouble the last time I discussed politics, so I'll pass on the "Commie" thing.

I will say that it's a slaughter here in the United States. I went to one of the best law schools in the East and classmates much smarter than I am were sending out hundreds of resumes - still getting "dinged". And this was in 2007-2008, at the beginning of the downturn. After October 2008 it became a nightmare - one of my profs who's been a lawyer since the early 1970's said she's literally never seen anything like this.

I managed to get a fairly well paying position at a firm (I'll be starting on Monday) but I consider myself fortunate. Lots of grads my age are temping for $30,000 a year, doing volunteer work, & "seeing the world" if they have rich parents. Or "marrying up" to rich yuppie men (despite my good looks, I don't seem to have that option.)

I myself had to work part time from home for months, and put off my bar review for one year (took it & passed in July 2011). In a better job market I would have been a summer intern at a firm starting in my 1L year.

I have sympathy for my classmates who bought into the big law dream and got burned. Nevertheless, I blame myself for not doing my homework before going to law school. Also, I'm not too sure that sueing the law schools is the right way to go about redressing whatever wrongs may have been committed. Ironic coming from me, I know.

Stealhead · 02-25-12, 02:33 PM

I would say in the current times if you have a job that allows you to have enough money to make ends meet even if you are perhaps underemployed and making a bit less than you could possibly earn then you are lucky.If you are in a really good job fully employing your education and experience then you are very lucky.

I think the people that are getting hit the hardest in the US are the ones that where living outside their means(which you could get away with until a few years back).Of course that is partly their fault but much can be blame can also be laid at the feet of finical institutions for allowing so many to do this in the first place.

The other type that is really getting hit are the people that where mid to late career only to get laid off they suffer because many companies do not want to hire very many people at that experience level when they can hire two or three new bloods for the same price so the experienced ones end up having to take a lower paying job many times.The ones that are considered displaced workers have it a little easier because they are much more likely to get unemployment extensions and the law(at least here in FL) allows them to turn down a job that is certain percentage lower than their old salary if they want.I know a few guys in this boat one took a $10.00 an hour job his previous company that closed down he was making $20.00 an hour.The other man fared better he was making $17.00 an hour and nabbed a job earning $14.00 to start and now he makes the same as he did before.

@iambecomelife So did you graduate law school in 2007-2008 or later it is not entirely clear if your classmates where in the same class or where senior to you.

iambecomelife · 02-26-12, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I would say in the current times if you have a job that allows you to have enough money to make ends meet even if you are perhaps underemployed and making a bit less than you could possibly earn then you are lucky.If you are in a really good job fully employing your education and experience then you are very lucky.

I think the people that are getting hit the hardest in the US are the ones that where living outside their means(which you could get away with until a few years back).Of course that is partly their fault but much can be blame can also be laid at the feet of finical institutions for allowing so many to do this in the first place.

The other type that is really getting hit are the people that where mid to late career only to get laid off they suffer because many companies do not want to hire very many people at that experience level when they can hire two or three new bloods for the same price so the experienced ones end up having to take a lower paying job many times.The ones that are considered displaced workers have it a little easier because they are much more likely to get unemployment extensions and the law(at least here in FL) allows them to turn down a job that is certain percentage lower than their old salary if they want.I know a few guys in this boat one took a $10.00 an hour job his previous company that closed down he was making $20.00 an hour.The other man fared better he was making $17.00 an hour and nabbed a job earning $14.00 to start and now he makes the same as he did before.

@iambecomelife So did you graduate law school in 2007-2008 or later it is not entirely clear if your classmates where in the same class or where senior to you.

I graduated in 2010. What I meant was my classmates in 1L year (2007-2008) were getting rejected for the typical summer jobs that 1Ls get. In other words, we law students were the first to suffer from the weakening market, as the collapse in 2008 unfolded. Now things are even worse, with experienced lawyers getting hit. I know a woman whose son, a seasoned attorney, just went from making six figures to being laid off by his firm. At another firm I know of, the New York office took a huge pay cut to halt layoffs - at the end of the year, they went back on their word & dozens of associates got sacked anyway.

Where I live, the few remaining jobs tend to deal with things like foreclosure proceedings - in other words, trying to clear up the very financial mess that ruined the legal market in the first place. Once that's straightened out, many people's legal temp jobs will probably end.

Stealhead · 02-26-12, 06:02 PM

My aunt works as a paralegal at a Ft.Lauderdale law firm they have some big clients like Caterpillar and even her firm has slowed down alot she has worked there for 30 years and for much of that time worked with usually the same lawyers that she knew well and worked well with.Now she and others have to take any jobs that come along.

She has been lucky because she has a lot of experience and has worked on many of the major cases the firm has had over the years others have not been as lucky.

Of course when the economy slows so does the desire for one person to sue the cost of the case is going to be a factor much more now for any company before it thinks of taking legal action.

02-21-12, 05:25 PM	#81
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,362 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Having gone up through doctoral studies, it has been my experience that the vast majority of my instructors have been moderates. I guess if someone has a far right bias, a moderate might look like a liberal. One of my instructors described this as political parallax - where from an extremist viewpoint (right or left) most everyone seems to be the opposite. Extremist left perceive everyone else as conservative and extremist right perceive everyone else as liberal. That's the good thing about being a moderate - everyone else is an extremist. I have been to both "liberal" and "conservative" schools and most of my instructors have been moderates. The only "agenda" I saw being pushed was trying to understand both sides. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

02-24-12, 05:59 PM	#83
iambecomelife Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,706 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	I got myself in trouble the last time I discussed politics, so I'll pass on the "Commie" thing. I will say that it's a slaughter here in the United States. I went to one of the best law schools in the East and classmates much smarter than I am were sending out hundreds of resumes - still getting "dinged". And this was in 2007-2008, at the beginning of the downturn. After October 2008 it became a nightmare - one of my profs who's been a lawyer since the early 1970's said she's literally never seen anything like this. I managed to get a fairly well paying position at a firm (I'll be starting on Monday) but I consider myself fortunate. Lots of grads my age are temping for $30,000 a year, doing volunteer work, & "seeing the world" if they have rich parents. Or "marrying up" to rich yuppie men (despite my good looks, I don't seem to have that option.) I myself had to work part time from home for months, and put off my bar review for one year (took it & passed in July 2011). In a better job market I would have been a summer intern at a firm starting in my 1L year. I have sympathy for my classmates who bought into the big law dream and got burned. Nevertheless, I blame myself for not doing my homework before going to law school. Also, I'm not too sure that sueing the law schools is the right way to go about redressing whatever wrongs may have been committed. Ironic coming from me, I know. __________________ https://www.facebook.com/WolvesoftheKaiser/

02-21-12, 04:39 PM	#80
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	"Well I had one Professor in undergrad admit he is a communist, most will not but they sound like commies.I despise left wing "thinking", it is a cancer on our society as is the far right religious nuts.People have the right to their beliefs, even though they are incorrect and have been proven so time and time again, but I have the right to point out how wrong they are and to mock, ridicule etc if I so choose." What did you actually interrogate your professor? I can see it now "Professor Pinkoburg are you a leftie-pinko-commie? "Why yes Bubblehead(replace with actual name) I am a card carrying member of the Communist Party and if you do not accept my beliefs and fall in line I will report you to the Pinko Brigade!" What makes little sense about your entire pinko leftie thing is that you have this notion that there are many people that are communists but will not admit that they are but you can believe what you want as you said nice way of showing your true colors with that mock and ridicule statement. More than likely you just happen to encounter people of opposing political views that have your same crass attitude; I have the right to mock and ridicule people that I disagree with,I despise certain types of people nice manner of thinking gonna get you real far. So what would you do if you where in Italy and got invited to eat with a group of communist farmers? I once got invited to a meal with some Italian farmers that where all communists it was actually one of the best meals I have ever eaten and not a word of the virtues of failures of any form of government came up at all if had your attitude I'd have missed out on one of the most enjoyable experiences in my life and not one word was mentioned about politics I know this for certain I never heard comunista uttered I did not need a translation into English to know that they had no desire to mention politics.They actually kept talking about the TV show Lassie(they had a German Sheppard named Lassie a male dog though) and about how the US fought the Germans in the region during WWII and how they where grateful that the Americans came.

02-22-12, 12:45 AM	#82
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	It is relative from region to region a politician running as Conservative in France would be far more liberal than the majority of american liberal politicians. The Communist Italians that I ate with for example they are much more moderate and most land owners are not communist by they employ the communists for example these farmers where raising sheep for the Italian land owner he was very much a capitalist but he employed the workers and they greatly respected him he sat at the head of the largest table and was my translator. The problem with some folks who tend to be outside moderate leanings is that they tend to see the world in black and white us vs. them and you cant do that.If the Italian capitalist land owner viewed "lefties" with Bubbleheads eyes he would be without any employees and his business would be going no where fast. I can recall once in a high school government class one of the local county commissioners who had been a Democrat fro many years suddenly changed his party to Republican the timing was very suspicious because the then State Representative for our region had announced that he was not going to run next term this man was a Republican so it seemed very evident that Mr. County Commissioner was eyeing that slot and felt that hed have a better chance getting the seat as a Rep. One of my classmates asked him this question and I have never seen someone stumble so badly in reaction to an unexpected question he pretty much rambled for 5 minutes never really giving a reason why he had changed parties after that day in school I never really had much faith in politicians of any stripe much less the hard core right and left ones.

02-25-12, 02:33 PM	#84
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I would say in the current times if you have a job that allows you to have enough money to make ends meet even if you are perhaps underemployed and making a bit less than you could possibly earn then you are lucky.If you are in a really good job fully employing your education and experience then you are very lucky. I think the people that are getting hit the hardest in the US are the ones that where living outside their means(which you could get away with until a few years back).Of course that is partly their fault but much can be blame can also be laid at the feet of finical institutions for allowing so many to do this in the first place. The other type that is really getting hit are the people that where mid to late career only to get laid off they suffer because many companies do not want to hire very many people at that experience level when they can hire two or three new bloods for the same price so the experienced ones end up having to take a lower paying job many times.The ones that are considered displaced workers have it a little easier because they are much more likely to get unemployment extensions and the law(at least here in FL) allows them to turn down a job that is certain percentage lower than their old salary if they want.I know a few guys in this boat one took a $10.00 an hour job his previous company that closed down he was making $20.00 an hour.The other man fared better he was making $17.00 an hour and nabbed a job earning $14.00 to start and now he makes the same as he did before. @iambecomelife So did you graduate law school in 2007-2008 or later it is not entirely clear if your classmates where in the same class or where senior to you.

02-26-12, 06:02 PM	#86
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	My aunt works as a paralegal at a Ft.Lauderdale law firm they have some big clients like Caterpillar and even her firm has slowed down alot she has worked there for 30 years and for much of that time worked with usually the same lawyers that she knew well and worked well with.Now she and others have to take any jobs that come along. She has been lucky because she has a lot of experience and has worked on many of the major cases the firm has had over the years others have not been as lucky. Of course when the economy slows so does the desire for one person to sue the cost of the case is going to be a factor much more now for any company before it thinks of taking legal action.