Obamacare

[CaptainMattJ.]

Really, BH? Are you actually insinuating that the healthcare system before ACA, even healthcare today, is not a grotesque middle finger to anyone actually looking for affordable decent care? Have you SEEN the average hospital bill? I remember years ago i had to go to the emergency room for a peanut reaction to a food i had asked about and had been told was peanut free. 1200 dollar emergency room fee. I got one pill. I actually sat there having my reaction for 3 hours before they gave me 1 pill, and another to keep for later just in case. I was paying 1200 dollars to sit on an emergency room bed for 3 hours, STILL REACTING TO THE PEANUTS MIND YOU, before the doctor looked at my chart, looked at my throat, and gave me prednisone. Because the reaction never quite got to the point where i was turning purple trying to gasp for air, they decided i wasn't urgent enough to get a pill until 3 hours later.

Our 550 dollar a month healthcare plan didn't shed a penny towards it, either. AFAIK there's no other industry in the country that embezzles, scams, monopolizes, and price gouges on a more obscene scale than healthcare, except the banks. And the health insurance companies price gouge so blatantly in front of our government. And up until ACA the government stood there and did absolutely nothing. You wanna know why every other first world country has DRASTICALLY lower healthcare and medication costs? Because other countries dont allow that kind of jaw-dropping monopolizing and price gouging happen, especially not in something as critical and important as their healthcare systems.

But we should totally let them do their own thing, cause it somehow worked before (not really). Let them monopolize healthcare, jack up their prices to obscene rates, and then deny coverage to people who really need it. The insurance and pharmaceutical companies have privatized in its entirety our healthcare system and turned it into absolutely nothing more than a business. Healthcare is not and should never be a business. The actual physical well being and health of every american citizen and in fact every person on this planet should never, ever be JUST a business. Look at what it has done. There are very few insurance companies because they have monopolized their business. They then buy out hospitals, pharmacies, and all the equipment our healthcare system needs, and jacks up the prices to preposterous and grotesque amounts.Then they jack up prices on their insurance policies and deductibles, and since they're the only guys in town its either them or nothing. Our medication, which costs so very little to produce, has profit margins of 1000-2000%. Imagine if gasoline or electricity cost 2000% more than what it took to actually make it. Nobody would be able to afford anything. But since apparently living is just a privilege to some people, we haven't done anything to fight them. Because the insurance companies jack up their rates to ~800 dollars a month for the average family (with deductibles that end up doing nothing for that family unless its a full-blown hospitalization), and of course not many people can afford that. So they go uninsured. Well,, life happens, and people get sick or injured. Those who are uninsured go to the hospital, and because theyre already low income, they cant afford the bill. So the taxpayer pays it. So the money that you pay that goes towards funding for the ACA actually gets put back into the coffers in the form of people either paying the fine for CHOOSING to be uninsured, or people not sticking the taxpayers with the bill they cant pay because they cant afford healthcare.

Healthcare is NOT a commodity. It deals with the real lives of 320 million americans. The ACA is not a permanent solution to our heathcare problems, at all. Not only are there flaws in the ACA but it never really addressed the actual ridiculous cost of healthcare in the first place. But by god its a step in the right direction.

Republicans, instead of proposing something even worth mentioning that ACTUALLY PROVIDES A SOLUTION, have cried and thrown a tantrum, and try to circumvent the law that was legally passed by not funding it (its still going to be implemented though). Pathetic. If you're going to criticize a step in the right direction, then please, at least give an ACTUAL alternative, rather than nothing. Doing nothing and simply repealing obamacare helps absolutely no one, in fact that was the problem in the FIRST PLACE. Wed be back to square one. And with no actual hope in sight. If you think its such a god awful detriment to the union then COME UP WITH A BETTER SOLUTION. Something that will ACTUALLY tackle the problem, and not anything less.

Unfortunately the american people should not realistically expect more from the republicans or the democrats than political tribalism and party politics. Its just absolutely pathetic.

[Ducimus]

I just found this, and it is undeniably funny.

[Tchocky]

Funniest part is the Romney sign on her lectern while she makes fun of the ACA.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Christ, whatever then.

You do realize that laws have to be about specific things?

Can't just write "fix everything" and make that the law.

Also, for all the handwringing about debt you do realize that the ACA is very much a cost controlling measure designed to reduce the budget deficit?

Cost controlling? A monopolist in blackmailing protection koney - the state - being in bed with a monopolistically-run business - "health" industry and pharmaceutical industry - delivering Americans a health care standard costing roughly twice as much per head than in Germany, and now costing even more people even more money - mandatorily? Why are people so eager to put foxes in charge of hen-houses?

Too big communities, too much cartel-stuff, too much lobbyism, too much monopolism, too much state, too much demand for more state, too much ignoring of the fiscal snowball disaster, too much bribery of voters by politicians, too much desire in voters to get bribed. Everybody wants to believe in Santa Clause, assuming that all those gifts come for free.

Meanwhile, the heap of price tags has outgrown the stockpile of gifts and presents. The giant hammer falls. We already can see its shadow in the sky. May take some more years til it impacts in the ground. But one day it will, and then its Sayonara all around.

It's all not to be solved within the existing system and with the established personnel and within the contemporary understanding of communal organisation, for the system is porked from A to Z, the communities are beyond any managable size, and the ruling personnel is deeply corrupted and has zero interest in achieving improvements that would necessarily include to make themselves dispensable.

The most social policy is the one that leaves people the freedom to earn by their work or own property what they need for a living, in fair dealing and trading with others, may it be customers or employers/employees, and so to come up for the costs of their living by their own work, and/or wealth. Anything and anyone interfering with this, may it be state, institutions, monopolists, "social" demands, must be crushed. What has ruined America's healthcare system and the social systems in Europe as well is lobbyism, hope for excessive socialist utopias, an intentional denial of most profound and basic rules of responsible economic and fiscal management, the basic principles of reasonable policy.

You cannot spend yourself out of debts. That is a myth, the blue flower of economics, the belief in fairies coming to your rescue. The only way in which lasting wealth - real wealth, not just bits of paper - is created, is by work, and canniness, foresight and preparation for bad times, living by what you can afford, not getting yourself into debts. That may not be sexy. But it is true. From generation to generation, it may slowly grow wealth that improves life for all. It may not be spread equal throughout society, but then: it does not have to, for the dysbalance is the motor of ongoing wealth production. The only thing that is distributed equally in socialist societies, is poverty and scarceness of goods.

[Tchocky]

Healthcare and pharmaceutical supply are not monopolies in the US. Not even close. So your basic premise is wrong.

As to saying it's costing more people more money. Yes to the more people, it will insure more of the population. It will cost some people more money, but you're forgetting that that money actually pays for something. Coverage of pre-existing conditions, caps on contributions. Things like that.

Also there's a focus on more preventative care, to make sure more money doesn't have to be spent later. I don't know why you're putting health in inverted commas.

EDIT - and leave it out with the "voting for Santa Claus" stuff. It's absolute rubbish and you know it.

In 2012 US voters had a choice between drastically lower taxes and someone who specifically promised to raise income taxes. They chose the latter. They chose to pay more for more services - not for free gifts. A plurality of UK voters in 2010 chose a party that promised austerity. As did German voters last month.

And for heaven's sake, the ACA is not a free gift.

[Bubblehead1980]

What? their own propaganda channel blew it.Dear Leader is going to be disappointed...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Healthcare and pharmaceutical supply are not monopolies in the US. Not even close. So your basic premise is wrong.

As to saying it's costing more people more money. Yes to the more people, it will insure more of the population. It will cost some people more money, but you're forgetting that that money actually pays for something. Coverage of pre-existing conditions, caps on contributions. Things like that.

Also there's a focus on more preventative care, to make sure more money doesn't have to be spent later. I don't know why you're putting health in inverted commas.

EDIT - and leave it out with the "voting for Santa Claus" stuff. It's absolute rubbish and you know it.

In 2012 US voters had a choice between drastically lower taxes and someone who specifically promised to raise income taxes. They chose the latter. They chose to pay more for more services - not for free gifts. A plurality of UK voters in 2010 chose a party that promised austerity. As did German voters last month.

And for heaven's sake, the ACA is not a free gift.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Healthcare and pharmaceutical supply are not monopolies in the US. Not even close. So your basic premise is wrong.

As to saying it's costing more people more money. Yes to the more people, it will insure more of the population. It will cost some people more money, but you're forgetting that that money actually pays for something. Coverage of pre-existing conditions, caps on contributions. Things like that.

Also there's a focus on more preventative care, to make sure more money doesn't have to be spent later. I don't know why you're putting health in inverted commas.

EDIT - and leave it out with the "voting for Santa Claus" stuff. It's absolute rubbish and you know it.

In 2012 US voters had a choice between drastically lower taxes and someone who specifically promised to raise income taxes. They chose the latter. They chose to pay more for more services - not for free gifts. A plurality of UK voters in 2010 chose a party that promised austerity. As did German voters last month.

And for heaven's sake, the ACA is not a free gift.

Here is what's going to happen. A majority of young healthy people will opt out and pay the fine, why millions of sick people join in. Insurance companies will see a massive increase in what they pay out, without enough money coming in, the result, premiums will go sky high....

Yes, we need reform, but seems Obamacare left out most the good stuff and implemented all the bad stuff.

[Oberon]

I must admit I am struggling to see how a nation can make such a screw up of a free health care scheme...I mean, sure, our NHS isn't perfect, and it can be a financial sinkhole, but that's more to do with the money being syphoned off into directors and executives than it has with the idea of free health care. It's a good thing there wasn't this much drama here in 1946!

[Buddahaid]

I just had open enrollment at work and all of the preventive care is now at no additional cost thanks to Obamacare. No copay at all. That includes physicals, mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.

I just had open enrollment at work and all of the preventive care is now at no additional cost thanks to Obamacare. No copay at all. That includes physicals, mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.

Well, that's news to some.
Come along young man, I am still waiting for you to enlighten me from my ignorance by your perfect knowledge of this legislation.
What is the matter? was that part of the legislation too hard, too complicated for you to manage even a brief summary?
Ok how about something simpler.
What are the provisions to ensure that something like sickle cell screening by the US PSTF is covered and the corresponding ban on insurance co payments for it?
Though to be accurate Buddahaid it isn't all preventative care only all approved preventative care concerning medical conditions in categories A&B, categories C&D still have copayments and deductables

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Healthcare and pharmaceutical supply are not monopolies in the US. Not even close. So your basic premise is wrong.

No. The whole business branch is one big monopoly. Thats why comparable heathcare standards cost Americans almost twice as much money than Germans.

That is a problem present everywhere. In Europe, in no other country drugs have so high price tags, like in Germany. Formally, there should be competition and market regulating prices itself. But that means little when market participants cheat and play foul. Abusing patent laws for example. And our politicians are in the pockets of the business lobby anyway.

You too easily fall for the superficial shine and put too much trust into the label they have attached to it. When reality is that this business branch is one off the most corrupted there is. Only energy, second hand cars and bio-patents on genetically altered seeds maybe rank worse.

I could recommend you literature on it, unfortunately all three books are German, by Austrian and German and Swiss authors.

Pharmaceutics and health insurrances are highly criminal businesses, to put it in plain English. Politics, as far as they have not been sacked by the lobbies, are lagging 20 or 30 years behind the state of things in Europe. In America its described to be even worse.

No monopolies, you say? Sleep on and have nice dreams. There is far more cartels than free market at work.

[Tchocky]

You don't seem to understand what a monopoly is. I'm wondering how basic to be here.

The industry more closely resembles a heavily regulated oligopoly than anything else - but even that isn't quite correct. This is the US healthcare sector I'm talking about.

In the UK you have a monopolistic system, but it isn't a monopoly due to the NHS being a state body. Words and definitions matter.

How can US healthcare be a monopoly when multiple corporations and hospital chains compete for business, multiple health insurance bodies compete for business? You say it's corrupt? You might be right but corruption is not an economic industry structure whereas a monopoly is.

Corruption is bad, a monopoly is also bad but that doesn't make them the same thing!

Prices are high due to a perverse incentive model, a skewed risk pool, and overly lax consumer protections. All of which the ACA at least attempts to address.

Edit - there's a load of stuff I could recommend you read as well. Such as - what's in the law and what it means.

EDIT 2 - For anyone talking about how "the people don't want Obamacare"

NYTimes: Closer Look at Polls Finds Views of Health Law a Bit Less Negative
http://nyti.ms/1aJd4xV

True, it's more unpopular than popular. But that includes people who think it doesn't go far enough. And no poll finds even a plurality in favour of shutting down the government over it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I just had open enrollment at work and all of the preventive care is now at no additional cost thanks to Obamacare. No copay at all. That includes physicals, mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.

You then received several subsidies?

You then received several subsidies?

You received subsidies every time you bought health insurance, employers received subsidies every time they provided it, you all paid subsidies to all the people who couldn't be arsed to buy any insurance.
Subsidies are not something that didn't exist prior to ACA.