About the SH5 campaigns - what you like/dislike

[Zedi]

Im curious to find out what you guys like/dislike in SH5 campaign. For example, among many others, my biggest frustration was generated by 3 missions: the carrier from TG, the BB from op. Weserubung and the 5 troop transport from Winstons special. Most stupid mission, hunting a HK group in BP. Most annoying campaign, MNostrum.

So how you imagine a good SH campaign, what was good, what can be improved etc.

/discuss

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Zedi

Im curious to find out what you guys like/dislike in SH5 campaign. For example, among many others, my biggest frustration was generated by 3 missions: the carrier from TG, the BB from op. Weserubung and the 5 troop transport from Winstons special. Most stupid mission, hunting a HK group in BP. Most annoying campaign, MNostrum.

So how you imagine a good SH campaign, what was good, what can be improved etc.

/discuss

I hope for long time that you start to rework the campaigns... make the same thing that you made for the last one... we really need a good campaign mod and you have the skils to make this mod - i can not tell you what i like or not because i am still in total germany... but the guys sh3 funs all time they say that the campaigns from sh5 are scrap and we are missing ships

[Obelix]

Zedi, you're absolutely right! Campaign in SH5 just crazy. I was particularly disappointed Mare Nostrum (back and forth through Gibraltar as on the avenue). A hunt for the destroyers - a general delirium!
In my understanding, the campaign requires a complete redesign.

[TheBeast]

My #1 issue from the very start was you are unable to select what Type U-Boat you command. When new boat becomes available, what Type is it? All you know is that a new boat is available, do you want to use it, Yes/No...

Then as I begin to research this a little, I am disturbed to find the lack of missions on a U-Boat Class/Flotilla basis. The Campaign has Specific Missions. Those Missions may or may not require special feature of a U-Boat, such as range ability. This prevents using, say, Type-II(When/If available) during the Western Approaches Date/Time era because no missions exits during that time that the Type-II class would be able to complete.

Re-Supply at sea(Why so stingy). Did Type-VII U-Boats really act as re-supply vessel for other Type-VII u-boats? Were these resupply U-Boats new skippers on training missions?
Maybe only use Surface Resupply Ships until after dates that the Type-XIV Milk Cows were deployed. My history knowlege is weak in this area but something does not seem right. If I use most of my fuel to deploy to patrol area, how is same clsss boat going to be waiting there with weapons and fuel for me?

Also, maybe contact Privateer for permission to use Type-XIV Milk Cow Model (AKA: Fat Bottom Girl) as AI-Resupply Vessel.

[THE_MASK]

What i like about the campaign in sh5 is that people can work on black may . Someone else can work on happy times etc .

[StarTrekMike]

I for one would love a reworked campaign, I think going to a SH3 style or even a SH4 style game would be best.

I like the special missions you get in SH4, they never seemed like a stupid use for a submarine to me and you could always go back to sinking tonnage after without feeling like you are not following what the game wants.

It would be nice if we just did not need to hunt warships...that is just silly.


Mike

[mustacheman]

Hi Zedi, i´ve been lurking for some time but your thread prompted me to register. What I´d like to see in SH5 campains is some historical accuracy. I mean operating in a wolfpack or having orders to follow a convoy to guide other packmembers thats what the typical orders for uboat-crews were. The BdU never issued specific tonnage orders (Sink 50.000 tons) because he never knew if a certain boat even met the enemy. To locate an enemy convoi in a vast ocean is no easy feat and would have been impossible if any uboat-captain headed to where he wanted to.
I´d like to see some decent German AI. So that there is a chance that AI-boats attack and pull away the escorts.
I´d like to see the BdU order boats back to their position if they left it for no good reason. Some might find it very boring to patrol an area as part of a wolfpack - and nothing happens cause no convoi comes along. But that´s how things were.
Ever read "Das Boot" by Buchheim? Whole chapters go on about the colour of the air and sea - because nothing happens. An other interesting book is "Ali Cremer" (CO of U-333 and later one of the new XXI boats - don´t know if it´s available in english). In it it´s clearly illustrated how much punishment Type VII boats could take and that part of the job was WAITING for the enemy to show up (and from Black May onwards the job was to survive). You see, I´m becoming sidetracked. The stock campains are simply rubbish. Just my 2 cents. See/read you!

[Zedi]

You guys fail to understand a simple thing. Nothing in the new dynamic campaign is mandatory. These missions are optional. Even going out and ignoring all the missions, the campaign will still continue .. is not like you failed to complete a mission, you are unable to progress. Not at all. Take those missions as Prien took the Donitz idea of raiding Scapa. So is like choosing being a hero or a casual noob.

Now there is one thing that is kinda bugged in SH5 campaign. The radio messaging system. Tried all kinda tricks to bring back the radio messages and link them to the dynamic campaign, so the event reported are for real and not just some scripted messages like was in GWX. Took me a while to realize that there is no way to send out messages at a precise date and hour because the devs wanted to change the system but seems like they had no time to finish it.

Seems like the plan was to control the whole radio traffic through the radio guy. So he will receive the message from Bdu then he will inform you through the dialog or log panel. Then you should have several options, like respond or ignore the message.. or who know, maybe even compose your own message. I still try to experiment with the classic triggers and events system to bring up some radio messages, but there is little chance that this will work, the whole messaging system is scripted into the campaign engine.

I reworked a bit the Total Germany campaign, so when you are on some special missions like huntin a carrier or some capital ships, the Bdu will actually help with intel and you should see on map reports about your target location. Not sure how this will work with real nav.

The extended campaign Open Horizons is about surviving for sure. And the missions in that campaign are made for subs, not for battleships. Its a very hard campaign played on high realism.

[TheDarkWraith]

If you're using my UIs mod I intercept ALL radio messages and route them to the new radio messages box. Is it possible that they are showing up there and not where you are expecting

[mookiemookie]

Unless you're order to support a special mission (Bismarck, Invasion of Norway, Drumbeat) the campaign goals should always be the same, IMO - sink merchant tonnage. As much as you can. The idea of sinking a specific type or number of ships is not really historical.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Zedi

Im curious to find out what you guys like/dislike in SH5 campaign. For example, among many others, my biggest frustration was generated by 3 missions: the carrier from TG, the BB from op. Weserubung and the 5 troop transport from Winstons special. Most stupid mission, hunting a HK group in BP. Most annoying campaign, MNostrum.

So how you imagine a good SH campaign, what was good, what can be improved etc.

/discuss

I want if to be realistic. But yet I have no idea what orders the uboats had.

I also have not got far into the campaign, But I've read alot in these forums about how you have to sink X amout of Y ship.

I know that I dont want goals like sink 6 of this type of ship. (As I very much doubt that uboats had orders to go sink 6 troop transporters).

I liked how it was in SH3 (go patrol quadrant CE for 72hrs)
And maybe add a few spy drop offs or similar. (As IMO this feels more realistic)

Oh I'd like to see that annoying tutorial from the start removed too.

Are you going to mod the campaign??? I hope so. But I understand that this is alot of work.

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

..
Are you going to mod the campaign??? I hope so. But I understand that this is alot of work.

Not yet. Just talking about to see what people would like to have in the campaigns, mostly like a reference for a upcoming project. What I could do alone is to replace the hunt of capital ships with tonnage war.

Also, Im very tempted to put the Bismarck into the campaign, but I have no idea how to script the battle with the royal navy and keep things under control. Would be nice to get a urgent message about Bismarck being chased and asked to assist, but Im afraid that is kinda impossible to keep up the speed with a rushing BB. But I really wanna see a mission where we can witness a huge battle between 2 enemy surface taskforce. Im really curious to find out what 2 or more enemy elite BB will do when they cross each other path...

Originally Posted by Rongel

...
Wow, I didn't know this! It sounds realistic now, but could we have more of those ships to increase the possibility for the resupply? I guess the propability for a resupply now is really really low. Increasing it may compromise realism but I think gaming experience is equally important too.

Thats why is imperative to plan your trip and fuel consumption. There are only few supply ships available and they are very busy and also hunted. Keep that in mind when go out on patrol.

[Tronics]

Mare Nostrum's 'assassination' missions.


Ex, go to this wrongly labeled enemy patrol area and sink X battleships.

Completely absurd.


To complete do the following:

Just go patrol in zigzags on the incoming shallows off of Gibraltar and sink the incoming BB's and CV's there, it will count for mission credit for Force H and Malta Supplies.

Theres usually a RoyalSov patrol incoming about once every 7 days, and typically theres a CV incoming around that time +- a day as well.

I'm still trying to find another CV for the Malta supplies, and then to go find the routes for the two Force A BB's floating about in the east somewhere.

[StarTrekMike]

It would be interesting if you could have more of a sense of "moral" in the game, have missions that show the desperation that was felt early in the war when the Kriegsmarine did not have nearly enough ships to fight the royal navy but had to go out anyway.

During "the happy time" we could see the cautious arrogance that was felt as ships were hitting the bottom but not as fast has they needed too.

I guess you guys probably see where I am going with this, the game is really good at presenting a setting by putting you in a U-boat with a crew that you can interact with.

It only needs to work on feeling like you are part of a larger picture both in the war effort and morale wise.

Mike

[Rongel]

Oh, one more thing. If this should happen it would be nice if the improved campaign could include also the icebergs, mines and subnets mods. Kind of like the "Campaing Megamod". Am I asking too much?

What I could do alone is to replace the hunt of capital ships with tonnage war.

That sounds pretty good already! Attacking a capital ship with 5-6 destroyers is a suicide mission. Sinking the 3 armed merchants in Total Germany was kind of fun, I would keep that.