Celestial Navigation with RFB / TMO mods?

[Wildcat]

Does anyone have some hints on how to do this and get it working right?

Thread links / download links would be appreciated.

[propbeanie]

I haven't kept track of them, and the "newest" I could find says for v1.3 on it's release thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...248#post607248

but for v1.4 on its download post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...do=file&id=525

... if they're the same thing... There's probably others that would be easier to incorporate, since if you read closely, may87th mentions messing with the menu_1024_768.ini file, which always overly-complicates things if you're trying to "merge" mods together...

I'm sure there's others, but...

[Rockin Robbins]

To make it work you have to cheat somehow, because there are no in-game tools to make it happen. The sky is wrong. Your clock is wrong. You don't have a sextant. In order to make an external program work you have to feed your position into the astronomy program to get the position with the "sextant" which is just chasing your own tail. Not only that, but the earth in SH4 is a cylinder, not a sphere or oblate spheroid. How are you going to get real celestial navigation stuff to fix your position on a cylindrical world? It can't.

SH4 is not a planetarium or a celestial navigation simulator. Any attempt to make it one kills the functionality of the game.

[Wildcat]

That sucks, but oh well I guess.

Is anyone out there doing the cheat method using stellarium?

While I suppose it's sort-of pointless to do it, it's still an interesting exercise in using the sextant or star/sunsighting I suppose.


Does anybody know if the star placements are correct, even if the times are not?

I am a big fan of polynesian navigation techniques and have completed several long distance navigations in FSX and other sims using nothing but star-courses. I would really love to try this in SH4, but the spacing between the stars must be correct. The timing does not matter much, but if the stars are in the wrong places of the sky relative to eachother it is useless.

[propbeanie]

I haven't a clue if this will give you any satisfaction:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117216

and

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116170

Some of the posts overlap what I listed above. Some of the folks back then seemed to think that the stars were "accurate" in SH4. I have no idea what their idea of "accurate" is... The moon isn't, the sun isn't, time isn't, the world is "flat" on a cylinder, but ya never know until you try 'em. I'd make a "spare" copy of the game to experiment in though...

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

SH4 is not a planetarium or a celestial navigation simulator. Any attempt to make it one kills the functionality of the game.

Any SH game should be realistic simulation of submarine operations during the WW2 period. I really don't see how could real navigation mod (optional if you like) in any way "kill the functionality" of the game ?

To be honest, the main reason why I went over from SH3/4 to SH5 is "GPS device" on WW2 subs...Seems pretty unconvincing and game braking to me.

I understand that real celestial navigation mod is not possible in SH3/4 but if there was one, it certainly wouldn't hurt...

Cheers!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Any SH game should be realistic simulation of submarine operations during the WW2 period. I really don't see how could real navigation mod (optional if you like) in any way "kill the functionality" of the game ?

To be honest, the main reason why I went over from SH3/4 to SH5 is "GPS device" on WW2 subs...Seems pretty unconvincing and game braking to me.

I understand that real celestial navigation mod is not possible in SH3/4 but if there was one, it certainly wouldn't hurt...

Cheers!

Because of the way that the nav map is designed you give up all targeting and tracking with the nav map in order to get celestial navigation. Not only that but you have to feed where you are (and that's what you're trying to work out) to your external planetarium program in order to work the azimuth and altitude of the object you want to use to yield......the same thing you had to feed the astronomy program with in order for it to work.

Not only that but the Earth in Silent Hunter 4 is a cylinder. However all geometry used in celestial navigation is spherical. Could there be some conflict here with wrong results? NAW!!!

No, in order for celestial navigation to work in SH3/SH4 the entire mapping system would have to be reworked, the sky would have to be useful and accurate, you'd have to write a sextant and chronometer into the game, nautical almanacs, proper charts and tools, a rework of the plotting board, radar and sonar would all be involved.

I don't know about SH5 and don't want to know, but I'll bet not much is truly different. The game is meant to be tactical simulation, Not navigational simulation or plumbing simulation or sonar simulation or radar simulation, or even TDC simulation. There is a long way to go in diesel-electric submarine simulation and I'm not sure anybody really wants to go there.

[Bubblehead1980]

Yes, I wish celestial navigation was a "realism" option and properly simulated along with many other things in SH 4 but it is NOT and likely never will be. Having said that, SH 4 with the proper mods is a great sim. My hope is we get to the point where someone with the skill and knowledge can deal with hard codded issues. Look how far this sim has come in 10 years and is very much alive, no telling what is next.

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I don't know about SH5 and don't want to know, but I'll bet not much is truly different.

That's a pity, because SH5, with TWoS, really gets it right. The navigator - not the captain - takes 5 celestial fixes a day, conditions permitting. (He will do additional sights if you tell him to.) He works them up - takes about half an hour - and marks the boat's calculated position on the nav chart. Depending on his skill rating, this mark may be close to the boat's true position. Or not. Unless you're in sight of a recognizable land feature, you don't know. He also does DR estimates periodically. These take less time and don't require a horizon, but the errors are greater and compound over time. Kind of like the way it happens on a real boat.

Of course, if the player has doubts about the Nav's ability and wants to take a cel fix himself, then SH5 becomes probably no better than SH3 or SH4. But hopefully, that's a pretty unlikely scenario anyway.

The game is meant to be tactical simulation, Not navigational simulation or plumbing simulation or sonar simulation or radar simulation, or even TDC simulation.

Someone who gets it! Amen, brother. Amen.