Dud Torps

[aanker]

With TMO 2.5 there is the option of playing the 'Terrible T campaign' - however in a 'normal campaign' the progression of boats, i.e. into newer classes as they became available, may give you a TAMBOR class boat as an upgrade from a GAR class when you may be expecting a GATO class.

I don't know if any of your mods addresses this issue because I am unfamiliar with all of them in your list.

I made a patch for TMO 2.5 to install on top of TMO 2.5 that allows the normal progression into newer boats.

Check it out here:
1_TMO_25_small_patch.rar (25.9 KB)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3506

If one of your other mods addresses this issue ignore this post : )

Happy Hunting!

[Red Devil]

Finally got limited fuel!!! After installing the mods as per Mercs instructions, I waited until I got my boay back to Pearl, was given the Drum; went into game play via cfg/gameplay and checked all settings - they were still on limited fuel=true,carried on down the entire list and checked all, then saved and set sail with Drum, and fuel began to drop!!

Dud Torps

Had one dud torp when out with the Salmon. got back, given drum, and checked as above but for dud torp settings. Found one which said that the percentage or something was =7 FOR duds, so changed it to zero. Yet to try it out.

[Red Devil]

aanker - thanks for that mod. In one career recently I started with an s18; then was given a porpoise and then a narwhal!! the porpoise is better diving (320) than the Narwhal (250). So that was a retro step.

[anotherdemon]

For me, I go:

Impact
shallowest setting
slow speed setting
90 degree firing angle (only fire when the ship will eventually cross your bow)

I rarely get duds with this.

[HertogJan]

Originally Posted by anotherdemon

For me, I go:

Impact
shallowest setting
slow speed setting
90 degree firing angle (only fire when the ship will eventually cross your bow)

I rarely get duds with this.

You're a lucky demon, normally a 90* shot is very 'dud sensitive'.
I wonder if the 'slow' setting could have anything to do with that... Never tried it myself

I have no idea if the game/ Mod changes dud rates when starting a new campaign in a new sub
Last time I had a 50% dud rate and this one has a 67% dud rate and the campaign before those two had a 25% dud rate (always start Dec. '41 in a Porpoise)

[anotherdemon]

I've never trusted the fast option. I reckon its messes up the impact pistol and makes it misfire*.

It also means you sometimes can't get too close or you'll dud out due to the torp running too fast; a nice and slow approach takes a longer course to the target, hence it has a longer time to enable.

(I also only trust mag. when in absolutely flat seas or harbor raids, and even then, I'll only use them if I have to shoot down the throat or up the the other end.)

*You know how those feelings go. If you get more duds with one setting, and less with another, you'll go with the latter

O, and I use mag. on DDs, of course, but I try not to tackle with them.

[Fish40]

[Quote] "You're a lucky demon, normally a 90* shot is very 'dud sensitive'.
I wonder if the 'slow' setting could have anything to do with that... Never tried it myself "



During the early war period, one of the flaws of the Mk.14 was the contact portion of the exploder. The BuO stuck the same exploder from earlier torpedoes on the new Mk.14. The problem was, they never took into account the faster speed of the new Mk.14 At a perfect 90* impact at high speed, the inertial forces were so great, the firing pin fractured, causing a "dud". Captains were noticing that impacts at less than ideal angles were resulting in "hits". This was because at those angles, (and consequently slower speeds) the inertial force was reduced enough to keep the firing pin intact.

[HertogJan]

Yeah I know, the MK14 was a nightmare in those days .

I was talking about the game, I don't know if the game takes into account the torpedo speed settings and dud percentages.
I'll find out soon enough though .

Same goes for the different campaigns I had, different sub's... different dud percentages or just lucky in one case.

[HertogJan]

Originally Posted by anotherdemon

I've never trusted the fast option. I reckon its messes up the impact pistol and makes it misfire*.

It also means you sometimes can't get too close or you'll dud out due to the torp running too fast; a nice and slow approach takes a longer course to the target, hence it has a longer time to enable.

True, but with slow settings vessels could evaide the torpedoes more easily, depending on distance, weather and sea conditions obviously.

Originally Posted by anotherdemon

(I also only trust mag. when in absolutely flat seas or harbor raids, and even then, I'll only use them if I have to shoot down the throat or up the the other end.)

*You know how those feelings go. If you get more duds with one setting, and less with another, you'll go with the latter

O, and I use mag. on DDs, of course, but I try not to tackle with them.

I use magnetic sometimes but rarely, as for DD's, I have MK10's setup in aft torpedo room just for them .

I only got to early '43 once so I can't comment on dud percentages after that and never tried cuties or any other torpedoes.

[Red Devil]

gents thanks for the input, most interesting. I knew about the real ilife problems with the mk 14. Quite a few sub captains lost their commands due to an intransigent C in C at Fremantle who insisted that it was human error and not defective trops. I did not find out if he, in turn, got sacked, when the truth was out. When that many experienced sub capts report the same thing even a blind deaf man would take note!!

I loaded my mods as per instructions from Merc, and manually set anytihng to do with dud torps to zero, right down the cfg/game settings scipt. I also set it (again) in game settings, seems to have worked thus far. Waiting until I have done at least 4 patrols before I declare a 'fix' .....................

[aanker]

Sadly, some Skippers may have 'cooked the books' in their attack reports - reporting setting torpedoes as ordered, when in reality they set them to a shallower depth for impact and not run under.

This made diagnosing the problems with the torpedoes harder.

HertogJan up above was wondering if the Devs modeled torpedo malfunctions - like running too deep, the defective magnetic exploder, and the defective impact exploder into SH4 and I'm pretty sure they did.

Dan, the SH4 team leader, was interested in trying to make SH4 historically accurate according to an old message he wrote, and I think he did the best job he could do with the resources and time frame Ubisoft gave him.

Happy Hunting!

[fireftr18]

Originally Posted by aanker

Sadly, some Skippers may have 'cooked the books' in their attack reports - reporting setting torpedoes as ordered, when in reality they set them to a shallower depth for impact and not run under.

This made diagnosing the problems with the torpedoes harder.

HertogJan up above was wondering if the Devs modeled torpedo malfunctions - like running too deep, the defective magnetic exploder, and the defective impact exploder into SH4 and I'm pretty sure they did.

Dan, the SH4 team leader, was interested in trying to make SH4 historically accurate according to an old message he wrote, and I think he did the best job he could do with the resources and time frame Ubisoft gave him.

Happy Hunting!

The way I understand, the stock game does model all the problems, just not the frequency of the problem. I think TMO gets closer to reality of the frequency, but not quite. Sometimes, I think it does. @$#&* Mk14's.

[Red Devil]

aanker. I was amused to read that 'he did the best he could with the resources' - my opinion of Ubisoft is not THAT good! Their ideas are good, but not the output.

[anotherdemon]

Originally Posted by HertogJan

True, but with slow settings vessels could evaide the torpedoes more easily, depending on distance, weather and sea conditions obviously.

I use magnetic sometimes but rarely, as for DD's, I have MK10's setup in aft torpedo room just for them .

I only got to early '43 once so I can't comment on dud percentages after that and never tried cuties or any other torpedoes.

I like to get close and aim for the bow. If she speeds up (which she will most times), she'll still take the torps amidships (I tend to just fire two per and see how she goes; she'll often slow down or come to a stop if she doesn't go to the locker).

If a DD has me dead to and is bearing down at flank, I'll fire all rear tubes at the shallowest setting and mag., with each one covering a five degree angle from the rear 30 or so. She'll usually spot one and turn into another. Yeah, a waste of 4 or so torps, but that's worth a DD to me.

I've made it pretty far. Cuties work pretty good against that DD bearing down on you or the lone harbor guard (and the others coming to investigate). Generally, they have to be blind to your presence or coming straight at you to hit; DDs can outrun them easily. They also tend to hit the bigger stuff in the props and slow them down/disable them so you can stick a proper torp into her.

If you get ahead of a task force, cuties can do some damage, though you'll probably only get one disabled BB or CA at the best from a full spread.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Quite a few sub captains lost their commands due to an intransigent C in C at Fremantle who insisted that it was human error and not defective trops. I did not find out if he, in turn, got sacked, when the truth was out.

If you are referring to the Mark 14's biggest champion, Admiral Ralph Waldo Christie, he was relieved by Admiral Kinkaid without explanation in November 1944 and was reassigned to command of the Puget Sound Navy Yard at Bremerton. He was replaced in Fremantle by Admiral James Fife. After the war, he sought command of the Atlantic submarine force but lost out to old rival Fife, and ended his career in command of U.S. naval forces in the Philippines.

After his retirement, he sold life insurance and dabbled in other ventures for some time.