About the SH5 campaigns - what you like/dislike

[robbythesub]

Lets hope SH6 goes back to the pacific with the latest concepts and more from SH5 !

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Salvadoreno

I don't want to step on your toes their zedi, but I'm pretty certain no german destroyers made sorties on british coastal ports nor any brit port for that matter. After the norweigan naval operation (forgot name) in april 40 the german navy was even smaller than when it started. I don't know if your going for realism or just fun but you could set up some historical german task focres. Ie norweigan naval operations, pocketbattleship raiders, aux raiders, bismarck, tirpitz, etc... Some operations in meditter too. Then again these would be scripted and I don't know how you would feel about that. What would make it more immersive if these were augmented by bdu radio traffic!

I made few small coastal german raiders for the early war stages, but I think your right... I will pull them off. Is just I find it a bit weird that only subs were sent to raid the brit coast. But how about the Luftwaffe? Sending planes to raid the brit ports would be also unrealistic?

Speaking about the Op Weserubung and battle for Narvik, its all there and is made very historical accurate. The german fleet is set to move out on the exact date with and actually every major battle is present in the campaign. And I see also Bismarck moving out in 41. Is just hard to catch them in action as they move fast and they are not following a very precise path.

[Sbygneus]

In my opinion, crew morale system fix is needed to fully enjoy SH5. It looks like game designers planned to make morale issues key factor in SH5 gameplay. Whether they havent finished the idea or simply failed to do it - I dont know. However I cant imagine tension in SH5 (and any other submarine simulation) without fixing crew morale system and its impact on crew's capabilities and behaviour.
As for me, the original Ubisoft's idea of crew morale simulation was exellent thing. I would like to play sailors and officers, not the filingless biological gears nad valves. Only then I could feel myself like the captain. Its sad that game designers havent finished this aspect of SH5. All those wasted special abilities, poor dialogs Good morale system alone would make hunting so much more exciting!

[mustacheman]

Hi Zedi, i´ve been lurking for some time but your thread prompted me to register. What I´d like to see in SH5 campains is some historical accuracy. I mean operating in a wolfpack or having orders to follow a convoy to guide other packmembers thats what the typical orders for uboat-crews were. The BdU never issued specific tonnage orders (Sink 50.000 tons) because he never knew if a certain boat even met the enemy. To locate an enemy convoi in a vast ocean is no easy feat and would have been impossible if any uboat-captain headed to where he wanted to.
I´d like to see some decent German AI. So that there is a chance that AI-boats attack and pull away the escorts.
I´d like to see the BdU order boats back to their position if they left it for no good reason. Some might find it very boring to patrol an area as part of a wolfpack - and nothing happens cause no convoi comes along. But that´s how things were.
Ever read "Das Boot" by Buchheim? Whole chapters go on about the colour of the air and sea - because nothing happens. An other interesting book is "Ali Cremer" (CO of U-333 and later one of the new XXI boats - don´t know if it´s available in english). In it it´s clearly illustrated how much punishment Type VII boats could take and that part of the job was WAITING for the enemy to show up (and from Black May onwards the job was to survive). You see, I´m becoming sidetracked. The stock campains are simply rubbish. Just my 2 cents. See/read you!

[Zedi]

You guys fail to understand a simple thing. Nothing in the new dynamic campaign is mandatory. These missions are optional. Even going out and ignoring all the missions, the campaign will still continue .. is not like you failed to complete a mission, you are unable to progress. Not at all. Take those missions as Prien took the Donitz idea of raiding Scapa. So is like choosing being a hero or a casual noob.

Now there is one thing that is kinda bugged in SH5 campaign. The radio messaging system. Tried all kinda tricks to bring back the radio messages and link them to the dynamic campaign, so the event reported are for real and not just some scripted messages like was in GWX. Took me a while to realize that there is no way to send out messages at a precise date and hour because the devs wanted to change the system but seems like they had no time to finish it.

Seems like the plan was to control the whole radio traffic through the radio guy. So he will receive the message from Bdu then he will inform you through the dialog or log panel. Then you should have several options, like respond or ignore the message.. or who know, maybe even compose your own message. I still try to experiment with the classic triggers and events system to bring up some radio messages, but there is little chance that this will work, the whole messaging system is scripted into the campaign engine.

I reworked a bit the Total Germany campaign, so when you are on some special missions like huntin a carrier or some capital ships, the Bdu will actually help with intel and you should see on map reports about your target location. Not sure how this will work with real nav.

The extended campaign Open Horizons is about surviving for sure. And the missions in that campaign are made for subs, not for battleships. Its a very hard campaign played on high realism.

[TheDarkWraith]

If you're using my UIs mod I intercept ALL radio messages and route them to the new radio messages box. Is it possible that they are showing up there and not where you are expecting

[Zedi]

As far as I see, the messages we get are scripted, except the periscope sighted and ship sunk ones. The rest, based on historical events and some distant battles and convoy routes are from the radiomessages.txt and they have delays. I got messaged from D-Day a week before the events, posted once a screen about.

But sending messages at a precise date and hour is impossible in the campaign. Maybe with your .dll injection, but not with ME. I posted about this issue here.

[Kapitan_Kaput]

just a thought but I'd like to see historical and fictional missions involving the testing and use of Wundewaffe like the experimental u-boat launched guided anti-ship missles...etc., but I realize this involves more than a campaign re-write

[THE_MASK]

What would be good is random sub net / mines positions etc . Take scapa flow for example . If you could place the nets and mines so that they are ramdomly placed within a defined realistic area . Every time you enter the area you wouldnt know exactly where they are . Good for replayability . I only just realised that if i placed a ship on the map and didnt want it , i just click on it and hit delete key .

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by sober

What would be good is random sub net / mines positions etc . Take scapa flow for example . If you could place the nets and mines so that they are ramdomly placed within a defined realistic area . Every time you enter the area you wouldnt know exactly where they are . Good for replayability . I only just realised that if i placed a ship on the map and didnt want it , i just click on it and hit delete key .

Your wish is already granted. But I will wait a bit longer with the release of the mod Im working on as things shaping up faster that I can implement them.

Regarding the randomness.. I cannot do that in Scapa, that place is very crowdy and too much nets can seriously mess with the traffic. But trust me, even if I will draw you the exact position of every single nets in theat area, you will still have hard time to find them. Even if I make them to report position, will be hard to spot them.

I think I will announce a WIP about this mod, so people will know that something nice is shaping up.

[Church SUBSIM]

For me, the biggest flaw in SHV is the complete lack of the Kreigsmarine coordinate system ((AN, AM, BF, etc) aka the grid). The fact that it was not included in the release is amazing. I am pretty sure that with a multitude of breakthroughs in the modding community of late, this is something that can be tackled and added. I just wish I knew how to do it.

Like others have said, the u-boats main task was to sink merchants. I would love to see a campaign like we had in SH3 ... go to this grid, search and sink merchants.

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Church SUBSIM

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Like others have said, the u-boats main task was to sink merchants. I would love to see a campaign like we had in SH3 ... go to this grid, search and sink merchants.

I have to repeat again. Nobody force you to do the missions in the SH5 campaign. You can still advance in the career and be able to play every campaign in the game. The difference is just the ending screen and your rating... NoName or Prien. So if you enjoy the SH3 play style, just go out and set up a personal patrol area, then ignore all missions and objectives. You will still have a lot of fun provided by the game excellent dynamic campaign.

The missing grid map missing its a shame, but not much to do about now because as far as I know you need to work it out in the .exe.. its hardcoded.

[Church SUBSIM]

No Zedi, I get what you are saying, I do. It's just when you are given the task to sink something (because a developer puts it in there) I at least feel like if I don't do it, I have somehow not completed the mission, even if I do and can move on to further campaigns. I was just more or less expressing my thoughts.

You are right, we are free to play as we see fit. I would just loved to have seen a SH3 style of mission generation.

In regards to the Kreigsmarine map, I have a feeling that it TDW focuses his attention on it (or anyone else that has a solid understanding of how the .exe works) we can see it become a reality. The grid is in there, it's just not being used.

[Zedi]

I agree with you, missions and achievements are addictive. But also fun if it has no ridiculous requirements. Like is Mare Nostrum filled with missions designed for a warship, not a sub. Just shadowing a taskforce is an epic fail as you can never keep up the speed with them.

But some missions are pretty realistic. I mentioned once the mission from Total Germany with the carrier hunt. At first glance, the mission is just stupid. But after few readings I realized that mission is based on true stories:

14/09/1939 - U39 attacks a battle group led by the Aircraft Carrier, HMS Ark Royal. She fires torpedo’s at the carrier, but these miss. 3 Destroyer’s of the Ark Royal’s escort, launch an immediate counter-attack against U39 and sink her with depth charges. U39 gains the dubious honour of becoming the first U-boat to be sunk in the war.

................

17/09/1939 - The Aircraft Carrier HMS Courageous is torpedoed by U29 (Kapitanleutnant Schuhart) south-west of Ireland, killing 515, but 687 sailors survive.

So what I would suggest is this.. go out and set up a patrol route in a mission area. If by any chance you will track down and sunk one of the mission targets, the fun will be double. If not, just hunt whatever gets close.

Anyway, in the mod with mines &stuff I try to rework a bit each mission and double check them by reading various ww2 timeline reports, even day by day logs. I wanna remove any fantasy scenarios and adjust the ones that stress the player.. like finding a single ship without having any clue where to do that. Bdu will be more active and will send the players more intel from now on.

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Church SUBSIM

...
I would just loved to have seen a SH3 style of mission generation.
...

I was thinking a lot these days about wtf to do with the campaign, what kind of replacement to add to the stupid "hunt the capital" ship missions. And also make the old grid patrol available again for the old vet SH fans.

So hows this... instead of giving you a grid to patrol, Bdu gives an area of operation. To give an example.. the carrier hunt from TG will become a "patrol the designated area and sink xyz tons or ships". You may get in you sight the carrier that roam the area and that will add more fun to your mission. How is this sound? And whats best.. sink xy tons or sink xy ships?