Obama supports "Ground Zero Mosque" (of course he does)

The idea of a mosque close to the attacks in NYC may very well be legal as it stands today. But it is a bad idea for a group hoping to spread good will and hoping to create a different relationship with the people and victims of the attacks perpetrated on September 11, 2001, as is often expoused by the Imam and his faithful.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

The idea of a mosque close to the attacks in NYC may very well be legal as it stands today. But it is a bad idea for a group hoping to spread good will and hoping to create a different relationship with the people and victims of the attacks perpetrated on September 11, 2001, as is often expoused by the Imam and his faithful.

I would have to agree on this. To me this proposed building looks to be a big 'ha ha'. There a other places to build such a building in NY. Why this spot? Were is the money coming from. It all seems very suspect to me.

[Moeceefus]

Its legal even if distasteful. There isn't anything that can be done about it. Take solace in the fact that the place will likely be monitored 24/7 by government agents, putting all of its members on watch lists. If anything nefarious is going down there, it wont be a secret.

[SteamWake]

Isnt there already a Mosque in the neighborhood?

Oh and what about the Greek Orhtidox church that was denied?

It really is hard for me to grasp in any way how this is a good idea.

[Moeceefus]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Isnt there already a Mosque in the neighborhood?

Oh and what about the Greek Orhtidox church that was denied?

It really is hard for me to grasp in any way how this is a good idea.

Why is there 10 different churches within a mile of my house? Its the land of the free. You cant have your cake and eat it too they say, and whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

...whatever...

Oh thats his obligatory thing he had to do, shouldn't but he did.Whole different ballgame with Obama.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Moeceefus

Why is there 10 different churches within a mile of my house? Its the land of the free. You cant have your cake and eat it too they say, and whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Wholy crap you had thousands of innocent pepole murdered in your neighborhood? Man I am so sorry.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

The idea of a mosque close to the attacks in NYC may very well be legal as it stands today. But it is a bad idea for a group hoping to spread good will and hoping to create a different relationship with the people and victims of the attacks perpetrated on September 11, 2001, as is often expoused by the Imam and his faithful.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I would have to agree on this. To me this proposed building looks to be a big 'ha ha'. There a other places to build such a building in NY. Why this spot? Were is the money coming from. It all seems very suspect to me.

I tend to agree and I have no doubt that there are at least some people are laughing about this. Nonetheless (and perhaps this is a bit naive of me) I see the preservation of freedom of religion and property rights as a slap in the face to Islam, not the other way 'round. My only regret is that we didn't decide to build even bigger towers on ground zero using money taxed from the private firms in Iraq. Now that would have been funny.

I'm not afraid of Muslims, I'm not afraid of bass-ackwards Islamic fundamentalists, and I'm not afraid of them building their mosques wherever they choose. I've seen first-hand just how effectively free choice can dismantle even rigid theocracy. Wealth, free choice, and social mobility can absolutely own just about any ideology. What I am afraid of is the Muslim church, or any church for that matter, being afforded a protected status of any kind. Protection breeds stagnation and stagnation is conducive to stratification of power; and we don't want churches ever having power over anything besides voluntary believers.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Hint: None.



http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=7604107

Umm, wrong. Very much so.

We have zoning laws, for one. Do you honestly think someone would have, say, the Constitutional right to build a 50 story tower next door to an airport?

Here's a great line from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning

Theoretically, the primary purpose of zoning is to segregate uses that are thought to be incompatible. In practice, zoning is used to prevent new development from interfering with existing residents or businesses and to preserve the "character" of a community.

Emphasis mine, of course.

The Supreme Court has ruled again and again in favor zoning laws, and only facial challenge has ever be brough. Zoning laws were upheld in that case as well.

There ARE special considerations given to land to be used for religious purposes, but quite frankly I find that unConstitutional and offensive, and should a challenge ever come, this would be one time I'd be happy to have a left-leaning Supreme Court (although I suspect that any SCOTUS would overturn that aspect of the RLUIPA if a major challenge were ever presented).

In any case, my point is simple: legally, this construction COULD be legally averted (it happens all the time), and to suggest otherwise is a mischaracterization of what SHOULD be the debate - that being whether or not issuing the permit was the right thing to do.

That in general is the problem I have with political hacks on both sides - they are always attempting to excuse their decision-making with this notion that they have no other choice. Sure, they had a choice and they made it.

Here, let's try another hypothetical: I want to start a new church. A church where nude women swing around on poles and offerings are taken in the form of dollar bills. I want to place that establishment in a location across from an elementary school that is commercially zoned.

Would you issue that permit?

[Moeceefus]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Wholy crap you had thousands of innocent pepole murdered in your neighborhood? Man I am so sorry.

Yes and it is a tragedy, and in a country founded on the notion of religious freedom, what better way to show these godless terrorists they haven't won?

[Aramike]

What I am afraid of is the Muslim church, or any church for that matter, being afforded a protected status of any kind.

Ditto that, hence my opposition to RLUIPA law mentioned in the previous post.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It does and that has been addressed, but as you are in the land of ignore you don't realise it so you are just demostrating your ignorance on the issue.



Perhaps your pet hate has diminished the credibility of the links you provide and the claims you make.
Still at least it wasn't a link about blacks and muslims ruining soccer

Tribesman, really going to say someone who majored in legal studies/pre law and begins law school in less than a month is ignorant of the constitution? get real.

This is not a constitutional issue as I see it.I see people who think the constitution is outdated and never invoke it unless it serves them, such as in this purpose , trying to make it a constitutional issue but it's not.This just about about gloating of radical muslims and using the ridiculous amount of "tolerance" we have for muslims etc against us.The liberal fools like Bloomberg etc are too blinded by their pc mentality to see it.

While we are at it lets build some type of Hitler memorial at Normandy or a Japanese shrine at Pearl Harbor, give me a f'n break.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Moeceefus

Yes and it is a tragedy, and in a country founded on the notion of religious freedom, what better way to show these godless terrorists they haven't won?

Other than being a philosophical notion (albiet a well-thought out one), in a practical sense I don't see how this would matter.

[Moeceefus]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Other than being a philosophical notion (albiet a well-thought out one), in a practical sense I don't see how this would matter.

In a pratical sense, radicals will show up and our agents will be watching. It could very well become a boon for our intelligence network.

Originally Posted by Moeceefus

Yes and it is a tragedy, and in a country founded on the notion of religious freedom, what better way to show these godless terrorists they haven't won?

My understanding of Islamic worship is, that a mosque is not required to do a beliver well in his/her obligatory service of worship to Allah.

I could be wrong, but unlike Christian religions, Islam was and is designed for the nomadic people.

Beyond that a president by his remarks on friday last, may have delved into the unknown US field of state sponsored endorsement.