2 escorts have me at 170m below. Will it ever end? - Page 3

The Avon Lady · 01-10-06, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

How can that be?

That does not compute.

That's what I thought, but apparently, it's true....

Prove it.

It's ridiculous.

Try reproducing this stunt with a brand new career.

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

How can that be?

That does not compute.

That's what I thought, but apparently, it's true....

Prove it.

It's ridiculous.

Try reproducing this stunt with a brand new career.

Wait... To clarify, what are we talking about? :hmm:

The Avon Lady · 01-10-06, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

How can that be?

That does not compute.

That's what I thought, but apparently, it's true....

Prove it.

It's ridiculous.

Try reproducing this stunt with a brand new career.

Wait... To clarify, what are we talking about? :hmm:

That if you have a file named "Copy of Sensor.dat" and delete file "Sensor.dat", SH3 will use the "Copy" file.

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 03:27 PM

Actually, that's not what we meant...

If for instance you have two files located in the library folder, "Copy of Sensor.dat" and "Sensor.dat"..... SH3 will automatically run the copy file...... Don't ask me why. SH3 is just foolish like that.

So it is rocommended that you remove the backup file (Copy of Sensor.dat) from the Library folder, either by deleting it or moving it to a seperate folder.

Redwine · 01-10-06, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

That if you have a file named "Copy of Sensor.dat" and delete file "Sensor.dat", SH3 will use the "Copy" file.

Not.... when we say that ? may be if you have only the Copy of XXXX the sim will not works or some thing...... but if you have both, together, we experienced the game take the original file disregarding it name. :hmm: :hmm:

Even after computer reboot !!! :hmm:

(if i dont remember bad)

No logical explanation, it must not be ....but it is, and make us to lose a lot of time in that job.

Why you think Marhkimov and me are lying ?

You dont lose anything being ware about it and putting the file away of the working folder.

The Avon Lady · 01-10-06, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

Actually, that's not what we meant...

If for instance you have two files located in the library folder, "Copy of Sensor.dat" and "Sensor.dat"..... SH3 will automatically run the copy file...... Don't ask me why. SH3 is just foolish like that.

OK. Same idea.

Did you test this with an absolutely new career or an existing career?

Quote:

So it is rocommended that you remove the backup file (Copy of Sensor.dat) from the Library folder, either by deleting it or moving it to a seperate folder.

I did better. I ran Stiebler's EXE program, created a JSGME compatible version of the mod for RUb 1.45, restored the original file, deleted the backup copy and them used JSGME to install the changes.

Redwine · 01-10-06, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Did you test this with an absolutely new career or an existing career?

It happened into single missions, wich are not related to any saved files.

All we was sceptics about it, like you.

But we made very big changes in the files, and the game make non sense.

After remove the "Copy of XXXX" file, and restarting the game, whow ! a disaster..... game make sense of all changes.

Backing to your uber DDs/DEs problem, try the files y load up, they use the Radar Fix from Stiebge, try them initialy in the mission U-505 B , against 5 uber DEs.

If you can sucessful attack and sink the carrier, and scape from 5 uber DEs, i think so it is more than enought to lose time trying it into a campaign.

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Did you test this with an absolutely new career or an existing career?

It is the same for single missions, existing careers, and new careers.

The backup copy files from the Library folder usually take presidence over the "true" file. Anyways Avon Lady, I see you've found your way around this issue.

HEMISENT · 01-10-06, 06:58 PM

Avon, its true
I was hunted for 7+ hours(real time) by 3 DD's/early 1944/campaign during the whole pinpoint drop exercise doing testing. What happens is those empty DD's will continue to make runs and in that time the game will spawn another convoy/task force/single DD etc. The empty DD's will call for reinforcements and this will go on forever.
We learned to take all copies of changed files and physically place them elswhere for safekeeping.
Also, it seems that using RUB requires different changes than non-RUb gameplay and campaign gameplay differs from single missions.

If you have some spare time(a lot) you might want to read the whole thread. A whole lot of useful info was derived from all the testing and brain storming.

Nightowl · 01-10-06, 07:57 PM

Try shooting a torpedo away from them, sometimes when it explodes away from them on the surface,(like maybe in the direction of the fleeting convoy) they will go to that area to check it out and you can then sneak away from them in the opposite direction. You have nothing to lose and it sometimes works for me. -Nightowl

Sniper297 · 01-10-06, 11:10 PM

I was a US Navy ASW tech in the '70s, and hunting nuke subs is more complicated because they can dive deeper and stay forever. ASW in WWII was simpler in one way - get a sub contact, stick a pin in the chart and draw a 100 mile radius circle around it. He HAS to come up somewhere within that circle in the next 48 hours. When he does, drive him under again, mark the chart and draw another circle - repeat until he runs out of amps.

ASW ran thru a whole bunch of changes during WWII. At the beginning the Brits were so short of escorts they would send out anything that could carry a couple of depth charges and a Lewis gun, so the few escorts available for convoys had an SOP to attack, but quickly break off and return so as not to leave the convoy unguarded. That policy gradually changed as more escorts became available, and some escorts that sailed with a convoy were detailed to stay with the contact until it was sunk, while the rest went on with the convoy. ASW became more and more aggressive as resources became available, and when escort carriers like the USS Guadalcanal started coming off the slips in larger quantities, those not needed for actual escort were organized into hunter-killer groups whose only task was (like the name implies!) to find and destroy U-boats.

So the later war period this would be realistic, when more subkillers became available the whole philosophy changed from a defensive posture to an offensive extermination. If you can find a copy read "The Cruel Sea", an excellent encapsulation of ASW in WWII.

JScones · 01-11-06, 02:46 AM

I'm not overly surprised that a "Copy of sensors.dat" file would be chosen over a "sensors.dat" file if both resided in the same folder.

It is not uncommon for games, and from other behaviour I know this includes SH3, to include dynamic file retrieval from folders. This allows, for instance, the ability to add extra .tga files to certain folders with the game finding them and picking them up without caring about the name, or even file extension.

In some implementations, I have seen this as a very simple "does the file extension look good, yep, ok, does the file contain this certain value, yep, good enough, this file will do". I'm not saying that's how SH3 does it, but with "Copy of..." coming before "sensors" alphabetically, if this approach, or something similar is modelled, it would logically find the first match, generally being "Copy of" (although, see below for caveat).

Alternatively, if the file retrieval is partly dynamic, it may be like "find a file that's like sensor.dat".

This could be tested in part by renaming the "Copy of sensors.dat" to "zzzsensors.dat". But, the result may still not provide anything - as depending on file system the *earliest* version of the file may still be the first found, ie "zzzsensors.dat".

I've done this myself in applications, so it is plausible. Whether it's relevant to SH3, I don't know. It's just a possible explanation...

Venatore · 01-11-06, 03:33 AM

They are hugging your location for one reason, they are waiting for the buddies to arrive! GET OUT OF THERE!!!!!!!

GOZO · 01-11-06, 04:59 AM

Hi Lady. I think thermal layers were modelled into SHIII? After playing SC for long time I learned the use of sound "bending" in water is very useful. As af few have pointed out, going more shallow and increasing distance may fix it since your sub can be in a "shadow". I have tried this before and it does work. Hanging around at great depth all the time makes it easier for the enemy to find you by "passive" senors. Of course when the go "active" and start pinging you rely on their accuracy in aiming the ASDIC-transmitter. Keeping a small area of your sub (preferrebly the stern) against the transmitter decreases his ability to recieve an echo strong enough to detect you.

Hope it helps. /Per :P

kiwi_2005 · 01-11-06, 06:29 AM

What i do in situations like this is go to silent running and then using the dial make speed to 1 or 2 knots cos silent running is only 3 knots and i find i still get detected weather its the radar pinging of my boat i dont know but setting the speed to 1-2 knts then upping the time frame i can get away - never go over 16x time compression though or your history.

01-10-06, 03:27 PM	#34
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Actually, that's not what we meant... If for instance you have two files located in the library folder, "Copy of Sensor.dat" and "Sensor.dat"..... SH3 will automatically run the copy file...... Don't ask me why. SH3 is just foolish like that. So it is rocommended that you remove the backup file (Copy of Sensor.dat) from the Library folder, either by deleting it or moving it to a seperate folder. __________________ It takes two to tango

01-10-06, 06:58 PM	#39
HEMISENT Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 1,052 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Avon, its true I was hunted for 7+ hours(real time) by 3 DD's/early 1944/campaign during the whole pinpoint drop exercise doing testing. What happens is those empty DD's will continue to make runs and in that time the game will spawn another convoy/task force/single DD etc. The empty DD's will call for reinforcements and this will go on forever. We learned to take all copies of changed files and physically place them elswhere for safekeeping. Also, it seems that using RUB requires different changes than non-RUb gameplay and campaign gameplay differs from single missions. If you have some spare time(a lot) you might want to read the whole thread. A whole lot of useful info was derived from all the testing and brain storming. __________________ Nuke 'em till they glow!

01-10-06, 07:57 PM	#40
Nightowl Mate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bushnell, FL Posts: 60 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	evasion tactic Try shooting a torpedo away from them, sometimes when it explodes away from them on the surface,(like maybe in the direction of the fleeting convoy) they will go to that area to check it out and you can then sneak away from them in the opposite direction. You have nothing to lose and it sometimes works for me. -Nightowl

01-11-06, 04:59 AM	#44
GOZO Commander Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Linkoping, Sweden Posts: 479 Downloads: 176 Uploads: 0	Thermal layers? Hi Lady. I think thermal layers were modelled into SHIII? After playing SC for long time I learned the use of sound "bending" in water is very useful. As af few have pointed out, going more shallow and increasing distance may fix it since your sub can be in a "shadow". I have tried this before and it does work. Hanging around at great depth all the time makes it easier for the enemy to find you by "passive" senors. Of course when the go "active" and start pinging you rely on their accuracy in aiming the ASDIC-transmitter. Keeping a small area of your sub (preferrebly the stern) against the transmitter decreases his ability to recieve an echo strong enough to detect you. Hope it helps. /Per :P __________________ SHIV:TMo 2.5, RSRD, SCAF OLC, Ralle's modpack SHIV: WDAD, Med Campaign SHIII: GWX3 GOLD, OLCII Gold, ACM-reloaded interface mod, SHIIIcmndr 3.2, Full Realism/DiD SHIII: LSH3 2015 Cold Waters with all bells and whistles Finally SHV but still unmodded and still a noob....

01-11-06, 06:29 AM	#45
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	What i do in situations like this is go to silent running and then using the dial make speed to 1 or 2 knots cos silent running is only 3 knots and i find i still get detected weather its the radar pinging of my boat i dont know but setting the speed to 1-2 knts then upping the time frame i can get away - never go over 16x time compression though or your history. __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

01-10-06, 11:10 PM	#41
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	I was a US Navy ASW tech in the '70s, and hunting nuke subs is more complicated because they can dive deeper and stay forever. ASW in WWII was simpler in one way - get a sub contact, stick a pin in the chart and draw a 100 mile radius circle around it. He HAS to come up somewhere within that circle in the next 48 hours. When he does, drive him under again, mark the chart and draw another circle - repeat until he runs out of amps. ASW ran thru a whole bunch of changes during WWII. At the beginning the Brits were so short of escorts they would send out anything that could carry a couple of depth charges and a Lewis gun, so the few escorts available for convoys had an SOP to attack, but quickly break off and return so as not to leave the convoy unguarded. That policy gradually changed as more escorts became available, and some escorts that sailed with a convoy were detailed to stay with the contact until it was sunk, while the rest went on with the convoy. ASW became more and more aggressive as resources became available, and when escort carriers like the USS Guadalcanal started coming off the slips in larger quantities, those not needed for actual escort were organized into hunter-killer groups whose only task was (like the name implies!) to find and destroy U-boats. So the later war period this would be realistic, when more subkillers became available the whole philosophy changed from a defensive posture to an offensive extermination. If you can find a copy read "The Cruel Sea", an excellent encapsulation of ASW in WWII.

01-11-06, 02:46 AM	#42
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I'm not overly surprised that a "Copy of sensors.dat" file would be chosen over a "sensors.dat" file if both resided in the same folder. It is not uncommon for games, and from other behaviour I know this includes SH3, to include dynamic file retrieval from folders. This allows, for instance, the ability to add extra .tga files to certain folders with the game finding them and picking them up without caring about the name, or even file extension. In some implementations, I have seen this as a very simple "does the file extension look good, yep, ok, does the file contain this certain value, yep, good enough, this file will do". I'm not saying that's how SH3 does it, but with "Copy of..." coming before "sensors" alphabetically, if this approach, or something similar is modelled, it would logically find the first match, generally being "Copy of" (although, see below for caveat). Alternatively, if the file retrieval is partly dynamic, it may be like "find a file that's like sensor.dat". This could be tested in part by renaming the "Copy of sensors.dat" to "zzzsensors.dat". But, the result may still not provide anything - as depending on file system the earliest version of the file may still be the first found, ie "zzzsensors.dat". I've done this myself in applications, so it is plausible. Whether it's relevant to SH3, I don't know. It's just a possible explanation...

01-11-06, 03:33 AM	#43
Venatore Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia:- Sydney Posts: 2,049 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	They are hugging your location for one reason, they are waiting for the buddies to arrive! GET OUT OF THERE!!!!!!!