Good news for Eurofighter

[Marhkimov]

And another thing... The USSR was never our enemy... Look! The Russians can't even feed their own families for God's sake. They practically lost their entire country. What reason did we ever have to worry?

And The Peoples Republic of China. We could care less. They ain't evil... Have they nuked anything? Have they provoked us? Are they a bunch of loonies?



If you ask me, the US in history has unleashed the largest amount of nukes in the world. We nuked our own cites for Heaven's sake! Las Vegas in the 60's.

What right do we have to call other people terrorists? What right do we have to call other countries uncivilized?

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

Why doesn't our military endorse other things?

I'd be happier to see a Boeing 767 factory...
I'd be happier to see a civilian car manufacturing plant...
I'd be happier to see an electrical powerplant...

Why would they indorse things they don’t use? Does the local pizzeria indorse building a dam in another state? No. Their job is to defend the United States so they fund things that let them do that. I would love to see a new power plant too, but griping about a military contract makes no sense. They are two completely unrelated things. You’re wanting to trade one necessity for another.

With many other ways to help the Californian and Rochester economy, why must we build more factories to build more weapons for the military?

They have the money, they are willing to buy stuff at a completive rate. They get what they need (weapons) and we get what we need (money to build schools etc)

I mean really... If we got rid of some of our firepower, what is Al Qaeda gonna do? Fly bombed out Cessnas into our airspace and blow us to kingdom come? Is the neo-USSR going to launch some nuked out MiG's into our cities? Is North Korea going to nuke us to Hell?


God help us if the entire United States believes this to be true...

There are people who want to destroy the US (you just mentioned some) if they have the capability they would use it and they are trying to get that capability. Are you forgetting how dependent the US is on overseas trade? This massive navy we have is to keep that secure. All those fighter jets are to keep our skies clear of bad guys who may just fly a Cessna with a bomb in to your home or your kid’s school. What good if freedom and prosperity if someone can just march in and take it away from you?

[Marhkimov]

But as I said earlier... Why do people hate the United States?

Do you think they suddenly wake up one day and say, "Oh, gee. I'm in an American-hating mood today. After my morning cup of coffee, I think I'll drive a bombed-out truck into the US embassy."

I understand that protecting us against loonies such as Hitler is a definate necessity, but other than that, we have NO enemies...

Only the ones we create...





EDIT: I salute TLAM Strike's desire to lead a legitimate conversation with me. I'm glad it has not turned into a flame-fest... At least not yet...

So no one else has any thoughts on this?

[Pigfish]

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

I salute TLAM Strike's desire to lead a legitimate conversation with me. I'm glad it has not turned into a flame-fest... At least not yet...

So am I as the original topic was about a big order for the Eurofighter. Oh well.

Try to have a Happy New Year Marhkimov.

My 2000th post!

[Marhkimov]

I think they should use their Euros on something else...

And not on fighters!


hehe, happy new years, and congrats!

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

But as I said earlier... Why do people hate the United States?

Do you think they suddenly wake up one day and say, "Oh, gee. I'm in an American-hating mood today. After my morning cup of coffee, I think I'll drive a bombed-out truck into the US embassy."

Yea its our actions that make them want to kill us, but (most) of our actions are justifyed. We have a right to aid our allies and conduct trade with people.

I understand that protecting us against loonies such as Hitler is a definate necessity, but other than that, we have NO enemies...

Only the ones we create...

To quote the Pilot episode of Space: Above and Beyond:

Gunnery Sergeant Frank Bougus (R. Lee Ermey from 'Full Metal Jacket'): Why did you join my precious Marine Corps?
Recruit Shane Vanson: Sir, to defend my country, sir.
Bougus: To defend your country from what? We have no enemies. Are you crazy? I think you made a horrible mistake.
Vanson: Sir, no, sir.
Bougus: Are you calling me a liar?
Vanson: Sir, the best way to maintain peace is to maintain a good defense, sir.
Bougus: Are you a politician? Are you running for office?

Sorry too say the Sarge is wrong but there are enemies, sometimes you just haven’t encountered them yet, as that show demonstrated. You don't know when a loonie like Hitler might show up.

[TLAM Strike]

And happy New Years guys!

[Marhkimov]

I dunno what else to say... If the majority wants to build Eurofighters, then by golly we will build Eurofighters.

But there are just as many people who would rather see money being spent elsewhere. Military is over-funded, if you compare it to education, which is grossly under-funded.

And everyone KNOWS how much money is needed elsewhere in the United States. Allocation is not fair. One less EF or F-22 could do the economy a lot of good, and we all know it.

[Marhkimov]

I want to hear what the Avon Lady has to say.

[Kapitan]

in life you cant please everyone same as in death, there will always be one you cannot please.

reasons why people hate america;

cause of its freedoms

harrasses other nations forcing embargos and millatery policeing against it seems that countrys will.

they invade a sovrign nation for oil and to better line thier pockets for thier future.

there belief that they are invincible when plainly they are not (same as every country)

the government itself

just the fact that they are american.

these are some examples of things ive heard about and in fact discussed with people all around me, most people i talk to say the war in iraq was just to get oil well maybe but theres some thing behind it all cause you dont go to war for nothing because it does effect your economy negativly.

my own personal views arent in there well think one or two are but overall no there not there, and before you guys start launching off about how negative i am and how im against america and what not IM NOT read between my lines and youll understand its not the american people its the monkey government.

[Marhkimov]

Hah, no worries... I AM an American and I am ashamed of our behavior...

[Wim Libaers]

Well, yes, you can point to a number of cases where the USA did things that made lots of people angry. However, the general case remains valid: any country that has something that might be valuable to another country, or whose elimination would in some way benefit another country, needs a way to discourage attacks. This is usually done by either having a sufficiently strong army, or forming alliances until the combined strength of the armies in the alliance is strong enough. If you don't do it, then you're likely to end up like Tibet: invaded.

[Marhkimov]

To a point, yes we need an army... But when our army overshadows all other armies of the world 1000:1, it seems pointless to try and make it 2000:1.


Take for example all of our current warplanes: F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, F-22, F-117. And in just those 6 types of fighters, we have over 20 variants, many of which can already do everything that we need them to do. Now ask yourself how many fighters does Iraq have?

Our superior might already surpasses that of the entire WORLD combined. Yet our military program chugs ahead at flank speed...

All I'm saying is, "When will enough be enough? When can we slow down the acceleration of our military? The world is already at our fingertips..."

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

Take for example all of our current warplanes: F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, F-22, F-117. And in just those 6 types of fighters, we have over 20 variants, many of which can already do everything that we need them to do. Now ask yourself how many fighters does Iraq have?

None (or next to), because the vastly superior coalition air forces in the first Gulf War was able to deter them from launching an maximum effort attack on our forces and took down any who dared to take off. In fact the Iraqi Air force ran away! That seems to me to justify keeping such a large military active and modernized, when we have to go to war the enemy will not put up a fight.

BTW our army dosn't out number all other armys in the world a 1000 to 1. Infact the US military is a lot smaller than it was since it is buying advanced weapons like the F-22 negating the need to have large numbers of less advanced weapons. Unlike nations like the PRC who have large numbers of older weapons to out number their enemyies.

[Marhkimov]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

BTW our army dosn't out number all other armys in the world a 1000 to 1. Infact the US military is a lot smaller than it was since it is buying advanced weapons like the F-22 negating the need to have large numbers of less advanced weapons. Unlike nations like the PRC who have large numbers of older weapons to out number their enemyies.

We may not be higher numberwise, but we do outclass all other militaries, period. And you know this is true, no matter how you state the case. THE US ALREADY POSSESES THE BEST ARMY IN THE WORLD.




Moving on, how about this?

Japan doesn't have a super-bully-military (ala the United States), and they are doing just fine. They have enough of a home defense military, and that's all they need... They're smart enough not to mess around in Iraq, and in turn Iraq doesn't mess around with them.

Japan resolves their differences by superior diplomatic techniques, to the point that no one hates them... And if Japan is hated by anyone, then it is only because they are so damn successful. That's as good a reason as any to be hated... All they do is mass produce cars, factories, various other commodities and goods.