job related rant

[Armistead]

Geesh, I have painters that make 40K a year....

[antikristuseke]

I make 6840 usd a year, that's working 200+ hour months with overtime pay included. 18,000 a year starting off even with the amount of money it takes to qualify does not seem that bad to be honest.

[Catfish]

From 1.22 on (not that the rest is bad at all)

The American Dream:


Not that is was an especially american dream, but it has died here as well, thanks to the lobbyists and letting money govern all.

I just don't think it's comedy anymore. People who get 60 - 70 years old usually know how stuff works, and then they die and a lot of young and dumb successors enter the scene and are fooled and tricked again, doing all wrong again and never opening their mouth. Until they are 60 years old.

Greetings,
Catfish

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i cant blame him either - this time next month i will very likely be entering the insurance business at the recommendation of a family friend. My fairly long and varied career in aviation becoming an occasional weekend hobby.

Sorry to hear that, GR, sounds like it was your dream job. At least you are trying to keep flying, so if the times in your business become better, you'll have still have experience, whcih will be a benefit if you decide to start again.

Originally Posted by August

I don't know what trade schools you're talking about but the one I teach at has to maintain a 76% placement rate or it looses it's accreditation and is no longer eligible for student loans. My course averages in the high 80's to low 90 percentile range.

Sounds sensible to prevent an over-supply of certain trades. How do they measure the placement rate? Is the quota filled when people get any job, or only when they get a job in the trade they learned?

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

take a look at Mesa airlines, they are probably the lowest paying regional carrier in the United States. (remember... just because the airplane says United Express or US Airways express on the side doesnt mean the airplane has anything to do with those companies other than a code share agreement behind the scenes)

year one new hire first officer makes $19.00 per flight hour with a guarantee of 76 hours of flying per month. The pilot may fly more or less than the guarantee.

so, before taxes that translates to $1,444 per month - or - $17,328 per year. Remember this is before taxes and other costs like insurance benefits etc.

Do they get other benefits, like health insurance? And what about the pre- and after flight hours, checks and stuff?

[August]

Originally Posted by Penguin

How do they measure the placement rate? Is the quota filled when people get any job, or only when they get a job in the trade they learned?

Employment must be training related and they must keep the job for at least 90 days.

My only complaint is they don't distinguish between a person who is looking for job and a person who won't.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by August

Employment must be training related and they must keep the job for at least 90 days.

ah, thanks, and which time period do you have to find a job?

Originally Posted by August

My only complaint is they don't distinguish between a person who is looking for job and a person who won't.

they also don't consider this when they calculate the unemployment rate

I was looking for some numbers from Germany, but they are hard to find. The trade schools are all public schools, so it's harder to get infos, plus they love to calculate the unempmoyment rate lower than it is.

From the class of my trade school, only a minority started to work directly in the related trade. Some people - including me - worked in a different area, while others went to university, since our diploma also qualified to study. So a number of those university students started to work in their trade much later.

[August]

Originally Posted by Penguin

ah, thanks, and which time period do you have to find a job?

Also 90 days.

they also don't consider this when they calculate the unemployment rate

True, but in this case it's the government telling us that regardless of the reason that a person does not seek employment in the field, including pure sloth, it's held against us.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

I make 6840 usd a year, that's working 200+ hour months with overtime pay included. 18,000 a year starting off even with the amount of money it takes to qualify does not seem that bad to be honest.

yeah but what is your cost of living?

it has to be all relative.

to put it into perspective, the cheapest rent in my town on an apartment is still going to run clost to $8,000 USD / Year

Originally Posted by Penguin

Do they get other benefits, like health insurance? And what about the pre- and after flight hours, checks and stuff?

They give you medical and dental insurance and they will match whatever you deposit into your 401K out of your check.

You also receive travel benefits at a reduced rate, and jumpseat privileges on most airlines.

[antikristuseke]

More than I can afford so I am forced to live with my mother.
Living cost here is not that far from the US or western Europe, also what kind of an apartment are you talking about here?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

More than I can afford so I am forced to live with my mother.
Living cost here is not that far from the US or western Europe, also what kind of an apartment are you talking about here?

One bedroom, one bath. Kitchen. Livingroom and 2 closets. Not much.

What are you doing for work if you dont mind my asking?

There are some jobs here that only pay $8-10K a year but those are generally held by high school students types.

Of corse that's the difference between a job and a career... A career is something that can sustain you in the long term.

[sharkbit]

Concerning pay rates for first officer pay at the airlines that GR was talking about earlier:
My first job out of A&P school was working for a US Air regional airline in Jacksonville, Florida in 1988. I started at $7.75 an hour. I made more money than first officers flying Dash 8's.

From GR's post, it sounds like things have changed all that much in the last 23 years.

After that crash of the Dash 8 in New York a few years ago when the FO's and captain's experience was an issue, I remember FO pay was brought up. My wife couldn't believe how little money FO's made.

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

I make 6840 usd a year, that's working 200+ hour months with overtime pay included. 18,000 a year starting off even with the amount of money it takes to qualify does not seem that bad to be honest.

It's all about cost of living, as mentioned. 7k here is about half of poverty level. That wouldn't even cover a decent apartment for 2 for a year, and I live in a fairly cheap area.

Our minimum wage rates are around $6/hr, maybe a touch higher, haven't checked recently. you're making around the equivalent of 3.50/hr, and that's just at 40 hour weeks. With the amount of hours your working, you're earning even less.

But it's all relative. Maybe where you're from the cost of living is low enough that $1/hr lets you live like a king.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

But it's all relative. Maybe where you're from the cost of living is low enough that $1/hr lets you live like a king.

I think it's generally true that European costs of living are, on average, higher than US. They're about same in the large US cities, but otherwise US is noticeably cheaper to live in. Heck, it's noticably cheaper to live in the US than in Canada, even...

Once you take out my academic expenses (which are mandatory to my keeping a job in the first place), I live on roughly $14,000 a year. Actually I live pretty well on that, but that is purely conditional on the fact that I maintain the lifestyle of a transient half-bum with very few possessions except my PCs, books and clothes. If I had a family, I would be thoroughly screwed. Or they would be thoroughly screwed. Not that it'd be pretty after I graduate - given my line of work, even in the best case scenario I will be making around 30,000 until I'm 35. Not great for family prospects in this culture, given the cost of living, either - and that's for someone who will have spent over 12 years in post-secondary education Which is why I always break out in laughter when people envy that "professor pay" I'll supposedly be getting with my PhD!

Which is funny, because when I was growing up in Russia, my family lived in total poverty and as a kid I enjoyed the heck out of it - and my parents were okay. My family's income for the first 14 years of my life never exceeded an equivalent of $5,000 with zero savings (and was often well below that, even), even with relatively high cost of living. So maybe a lot of it also does come down to culture and expectation as well...

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

It's all about cost of living, as mentioned. 7k here is about half of poverty level. That wouldn't even cover a decent apartment for 2 for a year, and I live in a fairly cheap area.

Our minimum wage rates are around $6/hr, maybe a touch higher, haven't checked recently. you're making around the equivalent of 3.50/hr, and that's just at 40 hour weeks. With the amount of hours your working, you're earning even less.

But it's all relative. Maybe where you're from the cost of living is low enough that $1/hr lets you live like a king.

He already answered what his cost of living is
"More than I can afford so I am forced to live with my mother.
Living cost here is not that far from the US or western Europe, also what kind of an apartment are you talking about here?"

If it indeed is the same as in western Europe, it's at least some 3000-3500 euros a year. I've got an 11m2 room (some 110ft2) with shared kitchen and bathroom, and it costs €275 a month.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

If it indeed is the same as in western Europe, it's at least some 3000-3500 euros a year. I've got an 11m2 room (some 110ft2) with shared kitchen and bathroom, and it costs €275 a month.

Lucky! My room is 9m2, and I pay €340 a month for that here in Canada (and that's still considered a good deal here...)