Proof!! - Page 3

Sailor Steve · 09-15-10, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessa

The 16 inch guns typically have very poor aim, haven't been hit by one in a situation where I was surfaced near a battleship. Its all the small faster ones that have near machine gun speed that tear your boat apart 99% of the time.

As it was in real life. They wouldn't waste a shell that expensive on a submarine.

fastfed · 09-15-10, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As it was in real life. They wouldn't waste a shell that expensive on a submarine.

Highly doubt that.. I don't even know if the situation ever happened..
But I will take a bet that, during WW2 if a Battle ship saw a submarine, it would take the shot! with all guns!

K-61 · 09-16-10, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessa

The 16 inch guns typically have very poor aim, haven't been hit by one in a situation where I was surfaced near a battleship. Its all the small faster ones that have near machine gun speed that tear your boat apart 99% of the time.

Tell me about it! I got torn up by one before I even had time to crash dive. I was surfaced in murky weather and "bumped" into it. For details see my thread, "I got killed by a BB." Battleships have guns of different calibers; those 16 inchers are reserved for targets that need them. A 4 inch gun is perfectly adequate for turning a U-boat into a lump of scrap metal sitting on the seafloor.

Edit: I am highly amused by my new "Stinking drunk in Trinidad" avatar, as in real life I do not drink.

JokerOfFate · 09-16-10, 10:27 AM

I agree with fastfed on this one, Uboats were feared by all ships and every navy hated them due to the amount of lives lost to them.

K-61 · 09-16-10, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JokerOfFate

I agree with fastfed on this one, Uboats were feared by all ships and every navy hated them due to the amount of lives lost to them.

Agreed. Escorts and merchantmen took every opportunity to ram one when spotted. This was both emotional and practical. Who wouldn't want to ram one of those elusive ship killers? At the same time, ramming a surfaced or broached U-boat was practical as it might dive again at any time. Ramming was a very effective tactic and any damage incurred by he ramming vessel was considered worth it. But at the end of the episode, cooler heads usually prevailed and efforts were made to rescue survivors. But not always.

Sailor Steve · 09-16-10, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastfed

Highly doubt that.. I don't even know if the situation ever happened..
But I will take a bet that, during WW2 if a Battle ship saw a submarine, it would take the shot! with all guns!

And you would lose that bet. A battleship is armed with 'secondary' batteries specifically to protect them from destroyers and the like. They have a very limited amount of large shells, and they didn't waste them on small targets. An Iowa class battleship could fire the 16" guns at a rate of about two per minute, and they carried 20 5" guns that could fire about 10 shells per minute, would be just as effective against a small target and a whole lot cheaper. It would be like your u-boat shooting at a guy swimming in the water with your deck gun.

There was one exception - USS Iowa and New Jersey tried to sink the Japanese destroyer Nowaki with their 16" guns, but the range was in excess of 35,000 yards, far outside the range of the 5" guns. Also, they didn't score a single hit.

09-16-10, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And you would lose that bet. A battleship is armed with 'secondary' batteries specifically to protect them from destroyers and the like. They have a very limited amount of large shells, and they didn't waste them on small targets. An Iowa class battleship could fire the 16" guns at a rate of about two per minute, and they carried 20 5" guns that could fire about 10 shells per minute, would be just as effective against a small target and a whole lot cheaper. It would be like your u-boat shooting at a guy swimming in the water with your deck gun.

There was one exception - USS Iowa and New Jersey tried to sink the Japanese destroyer Nowaki with their 16" guns, but the range was in excess of 35,000 yards, far outside the range of the 5" guns. Also, they didn't score a single hit.

I always saw any battleships role as pure unadulturated power and range. Sticking to the motto of reaching out and touching some one before they can come close to you.. but with a ton more firepower.

desirableroasted · 09-16-10, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

USS Iowa and New Jersey tried to sink the Japanese destroyer Nowaki with their 16" guns, but the range was in excess of 35,000 yards, far outside the range of the 5" guns. Also, they didn't score a single hit.

I've been shot at by BB's three times in the game (three stupid mistakes that I shall not repeat), twice by Hood, once by Nelson. While I wasn't a detached observer, it seems to me that while they turned their big guns to bear, they didn't shoot them. Just the small stuff (which is big enough).

So I wonder if they ever shoot them in the game? I know they wouldn't in real life.

Tessa · 09-17-10, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And you would lose that bet. A battleship is armed with 'secondary' batteries specifically to protect them from destroyers and the like. They have a very limited amount of large shells, and they didn't waste them on small targets. An Iowa class battleship could fire the 16" guns at a rate of about two per minute, and they carried 20 5" guns that could fire about 10 shells per minute, would be just as effective against a small target and a whole lot cheaper. It would be like your u-boat shooting at a guy swimming in the water with your deck gun.

There was one exception - USS Iowa and New Jersey tried to sink the Japanese destroyer Nowaki with their 16" guns, but the range was in excess of 35,000 yards, far outside the range of the 5" guns. Also, they didn't score a single hit.

Shooting a shell the size of a Volkswagen at a U-Boat would have been extreme massive overkill. Only kind of scenario that I could think that any ship captain might even think about using all batteries is if one of the original u-boat aces had stayed in the war for the duration of the war or far into the war and (irl) racked up 500,000 tons or more, and then only if he didn't something like Von Ricktofen and paint his submarine red. Unless the target was something of massively high value, 5" guns are plenty nasty enough to euthanize your crew. Heck, even the flak guns would've probably been enough if they could aim them at a negative camber (don't think they're able to though?).

Jimbuna · 09-17-10, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

I've been shot at by BB's three times in the game (three stupid mistakes that I shall not repeat), twice by Hood, once by Nelson. While I wasn't a detached observer, it seems to me that while they turned their big guns to bear, they didn't shoot them. Just the small stuff (which is big enough).

So I wonder if they ever shoot them in the game? I know they wouldn't in real life.

They certainly do ingame but as Steve has already correctly stated, it would be extremely rare in RL unless they were engaging something in the region of a cruiser or bigger.

desirableroasted · 09-17-10, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

They certainly do ingame ...

Are they modeled correctly? Because I think a real-life BB shell would snap a boat in two.

Jimbuna · 09-18-10, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

Are they modeled correctly? Because I think a real-life BB shell would snap a boat in two.

We work with what we've got....most of the damage files were altered in an earlier Grey Woves or GWX version and it was carried over from there.

To be precise as per RL would need a mammoth/herculean effort which IMO goes far beyond what we can expect from a game 5 or more year old.

ediko · 09-18-10, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

Are they modeled correctly? Because I think a real-life BB shell would snap a boat in two.

Think of it this way. They certainly wouldn't hit a uboat, it would be extremely lucky if they even landed somewhere near of it and the uboat would be damage by the splash. Secondly they wouldn't fire those big guns at you anyway as already stated here. Why bother and rework those damage models anyway? Now I'm interested if the battleship mod does that

desirableroasted · 09-18-10, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

We work with what we've got....most of the damage files were altered in an earlier Grey Woves or GWX version and it was carried over from there.

To be precise as per RL would need a mammoth/herculean effort which IMO goes far beyond what we can expect from a game 5 or more year old.

I was more wondering how accurate the modeling is, not suggesting that it could or should be better than it is.

I am always amazed and grateful for what the modders have done.

Gerald · 09-18-10, 09:28 AM

There was one exception - USS Iowa and New Jersey tried to sink the Japanese destroyer Nowaki with their 16" guns, but the range was in excess of 35,000 yards, far outside the range of the 5" guns. Also, they didn't score a single hit.[/QUOTE]

09-18-10, 09:28 AM	#45
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Steve,the mass shell had ammo for 16 "guns, roughly There was one exception - USS Iowa and New Jersey tried to sink the Japanese destroyer Nowaki with their 16" guns, but the range was in excess of 35,000 yards, far outside the range of the 5" guns. Also, they didn't score a single hit.[/QUOTE] __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

09-16-10, 10:27 AM	#34
JokerOfFate Sonar Guy Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 387 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	I agree with fastfed on this one, Uboats were feared by all ships and every navy hated them due to the amount of lives lost to them.