LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod - Page 29

Molon Labe · 10-15-05, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amizaur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathblow

How about this.....

1. give each missle a Active Sonar with a ping of a distinct frequency that give one ping when launched.
2. give each platform an Active Intercept sensor called "launchertransit" and with the ability to detect only the missle ping frequency.
3. Give the "Launchertransit" sensor 0 trackers. Tracker prefix "L" and a name "launchtransit"

Very interesting too !

Maybe even more promising, because almost everyone plays with active intercept autocrew, and a ping is nice audio warning that something is happening. The range of this dedicated AI sensor could be set to 20nm for example. Will try this, after correcting current 2.01 torpedo issue, thanx !

And it will actually make a ping sound? Yuck!
The transient system you have right now is pretty close to perfect...

Amizaur · 10-15-05, 07:37 PM

The "ping" sound would have to be understood as "udnerwater missile launch" message, just sounding like a ping ;-))))
I'm thinking of that, unfortunately we can't have only perfect solutions with current engine. And missiles pinging at start is probably only way to make AUTO notification, without need to watch the sonar screen...
Of course missile launch will be still visible on broadband sonar like in 2.01 ! Just there would be additional ping sound and with enabled AI autocrew a contact line would appear on map named Missile Transient or similar.

BTW - I returned to Oleg description of how USNI database works and... I should make this month ago... It's in fact very easy to modify USNI descriptions, and it's a shame we didn't make it for 2.01 already. It's only little more difficult to install modified file because it's big and outside of database/doctrine folders (it's in graphics). But I think I can make backup of original USNI database file and build new at mod install and later switch modded/original versions with install/uninstall scripts just like databases

So next relase of mod will probably have correct USNI descriptions

Deathblow · 10-15-05, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

And it will actually make a ping sound? Yuck!
The transient system you have right now is pretty close to perfect...

No its not. Its no where near perfect. Not being able to differentiate a launch transient from a normal broadband signal is equivalent to not being able to differentiate a active sonar ping from just another broadband source. Being able to delineate that the sound source was in fact a "ping" and not just another "sierra contact" is a crucial piece of information....
.....just as being able to delineate a source as a launch transient not "just another sierra" is as crucial a piece of info.

"oh by the way captain, did I mention that Sierra 21 was a active ping that probably detected us.... ooops forgot to mention that... oh and Sierra 22 was probably a missle launched at us.... forgot to mention that too... oh well."

Deathblow · 10-15-05, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amizaur

BTW - I returned to Oleg description of how USNI database works and... I should make this month ago... It's in fact very easy to modify USNI descriptions, and it's a shame we didn't make it for 2.01 already. It's only little more difficult to install modified file because it's big and outside of database/doctrine folders (it's in graphics).

ooooooo........ :hmm:

I want to play with the USNI database too.... where can I read about Oleg's description? Which file in the graphics folder is it?

Molon Labe · 10-15-05, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathblow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

And it will actually make a ping sound? Yuck!
The transient system you have right now is pretty close to perfect...

No its not. Its no where near perfect. Not being able to differentiate a launch transient from a normal broadband signal is equivalent to not being able to differentiate a active sonar ping from just another broadband source. Being able to delineate that the sound source was in fact a "ping" and not just another "sierra contact" is a crucial piece of information....
.....just as being able to delineate a source as a launch transient not "just another sierra" is as crucial a piece of info.

"oh by the way captain, did I mention that Sierra 21 was a active ping that probably detected us.... ooops forgot to mention that... oh and Sierra 22 was probably a missle launched at us.... forgot to mention that too... oh well."

The very large BB noise that the missile launch generates is hard to mistake for anything else in this mod. That's a tremendous improvement over DW 1.01, where there was only a tiny increase in signal that was nearly undetectable. The goal of the mod was to improve the realism and balance of the game without creating any new issues....the missile transient fix accomplished exactly that.

LuftWolf · 10-15-05, 09:58 PM

The way the fix stands now, its also a balancing factor between Russian and Western platforms.

The Russians have better missiles, and the Americans have a better ability to detect missile launches, as the missile launches leave a very distinct trace on the waterfall BB which can be observed on the long-term scope, even if you aren't at the sonar station the moment the missile is launched.

However, if we can make an automatic signal without creating any new issues or something funny in game, then that works for me.

Remember, you don't have an inalienable right to an automatic missile launch warning.

:P

If a more heads-up (heads-down in the sonar station?) player gets an advantage from the current system, I don't have a problem with rewarding diligence.

Amizaur · 10-15-05, 10:07 PM

Guys, it's only an idea now !!!! Nothing more !!! I even didn't try yet if it works at all

. Of course that I would like to know people's opinion (maybe little poll but only if I confirm that it works), and I won't do anything without consulting this with Luftwolf as long as he's online

.

About editing USNI database - well not too far, search in this thread, page 12. And I searched for it half an hour only because I used wrong optio0ns in search engine

One thing - when using decompress, give it a file name without extension, this is way it works for me.

LuftWolf · 10-15-05, 10:13 PM

I'm all for making the feature better!

Let's try.

I just don't want to add anything forced.

Bill Nichols · 10-16-05, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amizaur

The "ping" sound would have to be understood as "udnerwater missile launch" message, just sounding like a ping ;-))))

Does it have to sound like a 'ping'? Couldn't you use a different (new) sound, more like how a weapon launch would actually sound?

(I'm thinking now of how, in Silent Hunter III, I (at the sound operator's station) can actually hear the splash of depth charges entering the water, seconds before they explode.)

LuftWolf · 10-16-05, 01:34 PM

That gives me an idea Bill.

Or, maybe we could get the missile to sound like a member of the crew saying "Missile Launch Transient Detected".

Tgio · 10-16-05, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

That gives me an idea Bill.

Or, maybe we could get the missile to sound like a member of the crew saying "Missile Launch Transient Detected".

If you can do that, SCS has to assume you

Amizaur · 10-16-05, 07:32 PM

Well, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that the ping sound is just sound played when enemy ping hits the boat, so if we changed it, then EVERY ping would sound like missile launch :-).

(Edit: after looking into sfx.agg I see that not every ping - just every torpedo ping

IF we could add custom ping sound to active sonar, the we could make it missile launch, but there is no such thing in database... most probably every active mounted on a torpedo calls for torpedo ping sound.
If so :hmm: what sound would be called for active sonar mounted on a missile ?

maybe nothing, or game crash ?

so better first we check if it is possible at all, later we could discuss how should it look (sound) like

)

And if we assigned a crew comunicate as missile sound, then I guess the missile would say it over and over in flight, instead of normal flying missile sound :-). It would be audible in 3D view, but not on other sub.
The thing we didn't make, was to assign BB sound file to a SUBROC missiles, this is the sound heard in BB sonar station on bearing of the contact. If we assigned a sound of a distant underwater missile launch to it (or rather missile motor working underwater) then there should be no more problems with discriminating it from any other target, you would just hear the missile at the bearing. Best would be sound already present in game, this would require only database change. If we don't find it (because it has to be underwater missile sound) then we would have to add it to sfx.agg which means more complicated install and changes outside database folder... but we probably have to do it anyway to update USNI reference database.

P.S. I though for a moment that we can use BB_shkval sound, shkval underwater, but it's wery poor choise... it sounds like a missile combined with a torpedo, so you hear missile with rotating propellers

But we could use it and add a stand-alone second little mod with better skhval sound, which can be used both with stock game and modded.
We can try also just missile launch sound, who knows maybe it would work ok... edit: probably wouldn't, seems I can't use fx_xxx sound as bb_xxx sound...

Best would be combined sound, beginning from torp launch with missile launch later, processed to sound like underwater. Then if you listened on the bearing and the distance wasn't long, you could actually hear whole missile launching sequence. I wish Finiteless was around... wonder what happened with him ? :hmm:

Deathblow · 10-16-05, 08:46 PM

Bah, been testing the first method I proposed and I can't get it to work. Adding the new sensor to a platform isn't having any effect, just ignores the sensor as if it wasn't there....

perhaps a 3 passive sensor limit is on platforms? more testing needed...

Amizaur · 10-16-05, 09:06 PM

Well, you want the autocrew to mann it, maybe autocrew is programmed to use only 3 original sensors on playable platform...

LuftWolf · 10-18-05, 03:33 PM

Ok, so what are we looking at for 2.02?

Changes and Additions

-Add updated Missile.txt and SubAvoidWeap doctrines to distribution

-Increase Torpedo Passive SL and alter sound vs speed thrust values

-Add LWAMI section to USNI (pending Jamie's clearance on copywrite)

-I would like to review the sonar sensor assignments to individual platforms

-Create the unit information tables (if I have the time...

)

-Work on trying to automate Missile Transient Warnings.

Anything else? :hmm:

10-15-05, 09:58 PM	#6
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The way the fix stands now, its also a balancing factor between Russian and Western platforms. The Russians have better missiles, and the Americans have a better ability to detect missile launches, as the missile launches leave a very distinct trace on the waterfall BB which can be observed on the long-term scope, even if you aren't at the sonar station the moment the missile is launched. However, if we can make an automatic signal without creating any new issues or something funny in game, then that works for me. Remember, you don't have an inalienable right to an automatic missile launch warning. :P If a more heads-up (heads-down in the sonar station?) player gets an advantage from the current system, I don't have a problem with rewarding diligence. __________________ LW

10-15-05, 10:13 PM	#8
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I'm all for making the feature better! Let's try. I just don't want to add anything forced. __________________ LW

10-16-05, 01:34 PM	#10
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	That gives me an idea Bill. Or, maybe we could get the missile to sound like a member of the crew saying "Missile Launch Transient Detected". __________________ LW

10-18-05, 03:33 PM	#15
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ok, so what are we looking at for 2.02? Changes and Additions -Add updated Missile.txt and SubAvoidWeap doctrines to distribution -Increase Torpedo Passive SL and alter sound vs speed thrust values -Add LWAMI section to USNI (pending Jamie's clearance on copywrite) -I would like to review the sonar sensor assignments to individual platforms -Create the unit information tables (if I have the time... ) -Work on trying to automate Missile Transient Warnings. Anything else? :hmm: __________________ LW

10-15-05, 07:37 PM	#2
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The "ping" sound would have to be understood as "udnerwater missile launch" message, just sounding like a ping ;-)))) I'm thinking of that, unfortunately we can't have only perfect solutions with current engine. And missiles pinging at start is probably only way to make AUTO notification, without need to watch the sonar screen... Of course missile launch will be still visible on broadband sonar like in 2.01 ! Just there would be additional ping sound and with enabled AI autocrew a contact line would appear on map named Missile Transient or similar. BTW - I returned to Oleg description of how USNI database works and... I should make this month ago... It's in fact very easy to modify USNI descriptions, and it's a shame we didn't make it for 2.01 already. It's only little more difficult to install modified file because it's big and outside of database/doctrine folders (it's in graphics). But I think I can make backup of original USNI database file and build new at mod install and later switch modded/original versions with install/uninstall scripts just like databases So next relase of mod will probably have correct USNI descriptions

10-15-05, 10:07 PM	#7
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Guys, it's only an idea now !!!! Nothing more !!! I even didn't try yet if it works at all . Of course that I would like to know people's opinion (maybe little poll but only if I confirm that it works), and I won't do anything without consulting this with Luftwolf as long as he's online . About editing USNI database - well not too far, search in this thread, page 12. And I searched for it half an hour only because I used wrong optio0ns in search engine One thing - when using decompress, give it a file name without extension, this is way it works for me.

10-16-05, 07:32 PM	#12
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that the ping sound is just sound played when enemy ping hits the boat, so if we changed it, then EVERY ping would sound like missile launch :-). (Edit: after looking into sfx.agg I see that not every ping - just every torpedo ping IF we could add custom ping sound to active sonar, the we could make it missile launch, but there is no such thing in database... most probably every active mounted on a torpedo calls for torpedo ping sound. If so :hmm: what sound would be called for active sonar mounted on a missile ? maybe nothing, or game crash ? so better first we check if it is possible at all, later we could discuss how should it look (sound) like ) And if we assigned a crew comunicate as missile sound, then I guess the missile would say it over and over in flight, instead of normal flying missile sound :-). It would be audible in 3D view, but not on other sub. The thing we didn't make, was to assign BB sound file to a SUBROC missiles, this is the sound heard in BB sonar station on bearing of the contact. If we assigned a sound of a distant underwater missile launch to it (or rather missile motor working underwater) then there should be no more problems with discriminating it from any other target, you would just hear the missile at the bearing. Best would be sound already present in game, this would require only database change. If we don't find it (because it has to be underwater missile sound) then we would have to add it to sfx.agg which means more complicated install and changes outside database folder... but we probably have to do it anyway to update USNI reference database. P.S. I though for a moment that we can use BB_shkval sound, shkval underwater, but it's wery poor choise... it sounds like a missile combined with a torpedo, so you hear missile with rotating propellers But we could use it and add a stand-alone second little mod with better skhval sound, which can be used both with stock game and modded. We can try also just missile launch sound, who knows maybe it would work ok... edit: probably wouldn't, seems I can't use fx_xxx sound as bb_xxx sound... Best would be combined sound, beginning from torp launch with missile launch later, processed to sound like underwater. Then if you listened on the bearing and the distance wasn't long, you could actually hear whole missile launching sequence. I wish Finiteless was around... wonder what happened with him ? :hmm:

10-16-05, 08:46 PM	#13
Deathblow Captain Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 518 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Bah, been testing the first method I proposed and I can't get it to work. Adding the new sensor to a platform isn't having any effect, just ignores the sensor as if it wasn't there.... perhaps a 3 passive sensor limit is on platforms? more testing needed...

10-16-05, 09:06 PM	#14
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well, you want the autocrew to mann it, maybe autocrew is programmed to use only 3 original sensors on playable platform...