US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Rockstar]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

Exclusive - House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes is blasting the Department of Justice and the FBI for its “failure to fully produce” documents related to an anti-Trump dossier, saying “at this point it seems the DOJ and FBI need to be investigating themselves.”

The boondoggle continues...

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

irrefutable facts:

Rasmussen Poll shows Trump at 46% APPROVE this morning, with 53% DISAPPROVE...

Obama at same exact date first year in presidency?? 46% APPROVE, 53% DISAPPROVE!

...

So, basically you're saying Trump is no better than Obama?; and, here I thought you hated Obama...

Another bit of irrefutable fact from Rassmussen:

Trump Strongly Approve: 29% ; Strongly Disapprove 44%; it would seem at the core of his "approval", there are fully 17% of the total respondents who have qualms about their approval;

On the disapproval side: Disapprove: 53% ; Strongly Disapprove: 44% ; a difference of only 9% have qualms about their disapproval...

Source: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ..._index_history

(it does help to link a source when making statements of fact...)...

Originally Posted by Rockstar

...


irrefutable Mueller boondoggle results:

1. 1 count lying to the FBI, 1 count conspiracy to launder money and 1 count making false statements to FBI agents.

...

So far. That little nagging thing called due process hasn't played out yet and the fact Mueller has made plea deals at all means the investigation is not over..

Oh, and you have once again failed miserably in the facts department: The charges against Manafort and Gate alone total 12 counts:

Count 1. - Conspiracy Against The United States
Count 2. - Conspiracy To Launder Money
Counts 3.-6. - Failure To File Reports Of Foreign Bank And Financial Accounts For Calendar Years 2011-2014
Counts 7.-9. - Failure To File Reports Of Foreign Bank And Financial Accounts For Calendar Years 2011-2014
Count 10. - Unregistered Agent Of A Foreign Principal
Count 11. - False And Misleading FARA Statements
Count 12. - False Statements

Source: Actual Criminal Court Indictment Filing Against Manafort And Gates -- https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download

The above does not include the charges against Flynn and Papdopolous, those to which they plead guilty and those which were deferred pending their cooperation in the investigation...

If your going to declare "irrefutable facts", at least have the decency to use actual facts...

Originally Posted by Rockstar

...

2. Mueller greatly assists defense team by removing FBI chief investigators over their bias anti-Trump text messages.

...

Pretty much of a snore; by the time the cases get to the courts, a lot of that will be old news and less impactful, also there has been no concrete evidence of a systemic or deliberate animus throughout the Special Counsel's staff; in fact, the fact Mueller dismissed the two agents involved immediately upon hearing of the situation goes toward proving Mueller is, indeed, making every effort to ensure the investigation proceeds in an impartial manner; consider, also, Mueller's staff is of about 60 or so persons; that means about 2% were found questionable and have been excised; another fact is this: Mueller had in fact removed those persons several months before the removal was made public; Mueller made the removals, not under pressure from outside entities or media exposure, but on his own, fully conforming to the expected role of an impartial administrator. Mueller has conducted hs investigations in a thoroughly professional and dignified manner, without the media circuses and pronouncements so very much a part of the "defense" of those he is investigating...

The laughable, desperate, flailing attempts by Trump and his minions to impugn Mueller and his investigations and to suggest the firings are a lynch pin to derail or defame his work is flawed, since, in a court, the defense would have to prove any animus in the investigation actually harms the defense case(s) of the accused. Does not liking Trump in any way mean Flynn, Papadopolous, Manafort, Gates, and whoever else other than Trump who might face charges and go to trial are being denied an adequate defense? Remember, even if any prosecutor were rabidly and openly antagonistic to any defendant, the decision of the jury and the court will be based on solid, verifiable evidence; its not enough to just say "These guys are criminals!", ya also gotta prove it to the jury and judge. Unless Trump himself is charged, whatever Mueller or anyone else feels about the Chump-In-Chief, it really has no bearing on the current and/or expected indictments. Facts are facts and proof is proof and you gotta have both to win a case and a conviction...

Saying the firing of the agents "helps" Trump is an opinion and not fact; in fact, it is a fallacy...

Originally Posted by Rockstar

...

3. As of 5 December the boondoggle has cost the American taxpayer is 3.2 million dollars.

...

Oh, I really like this one; it allows me to dust off some of my accounting skills. USD $3.2M, eh? Well, the Watergate prosecutions cost USD $8M in 1974; if you do the adjustments for inflation, etc., the cost in 2017 dollars is nearly USD $40M; the cost of the Special Prosecutor Ken Starr's investigations into Bill Clinton cost USD $39.2M in 1999; if you do the adjustments for inflation, etc., the cost in 2017 dollars is nearly USD $57.6M; I don't know about anyone else, but in comparison to USD $40M and USD $57.6M, USD $3.2M is dirt cheap, highly efficient work; so far, Mueller is running at only 8% of the Watergate total cost and at only 5% of the Clinton case cost and all Ken Starr got out of it was a stained dress. Mueller, in addition to being known and respected as a diligent, fair, and thorough investigator, is also known as a no-nonsense, frugal administrator; it is severely doubtful he is going to be wasteful of any resources...


Fancy that: the 'irrefutable" -- refuted...







<O>

[eddie]

A recent study of Trump supporters shows that 1 out of 3 who support Trump are just as stupid as the other 2.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by eddie

A recent study of Trump supporters shows that 1 out of 3 who support Trump are just as stupid as the other 2.

Perfect example of the elitist attitude that put Trump where he's at. Job well done, thank you!

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by em2nought

I'm looking forward to Hollywood, but the really big one he needs to tackle is "education", we have got to turn education pro USA, it's been anti-USA for far too long.

Out of curiousity: How is the current education anti-USA?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Out of curiousity: How is the current education anti-USA?

You know

All that stuff about equality and treating different people with respect. Tolerance even if you don't agree with them. Thinking about more than just what is good for you but what may be good for others. Showing compassion and empathy

All that garbage just has to go.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

You know

All that stuff about equality and treating different people with respect. Tolerance even if you don't agree with them. Thinking about more than just what is good for you but what may be good for others. Showing compassion and empathy

All that garbage just has to go.

Are we talking about the same institutions? The ones with safe speech zones, trigger words and the habit of using threats and violence to silence conservative guest speakers? Those institutions are not about equality and treating people with respect unless they have the correct opinions.

[Red Devil]

I've come into this very late, but astounded at how stupid and bad ass losers americans can be. Its damned unbelievable. Left whingers cant take a defeat on the chin so riot and destory the countries historical monuments.

Let me remind these idiots. Who brought slavery to the USA? Democrats. Who invented the anti negro KKK? Democrats. Its amazing how much they forget that they started. In the 60s it was the left whingers who shouted down with authority!! In the 21C its the democratic lefties shouting if you deny authority you are a Nazi and fascist!! Make you're stupid minds up.

Whilst all this is going on, people are still fighting behind the scenes, undercover, fake news, cry baby politics. And the march of islam has created NO GO cities in the USA. And hillary still walks the streets even though nearly 100 deaths have been attributed to her and her 'foundation' which is sponsored by Soros and Saudi.

And STILL the people of the USA wont listen - bye bye USA, Russia will be the new world power, and I cant wait.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by eddie

A recent study of Trump supporters shows that 1 out of 3 who support Trump are just as stupid as the other 2.

correction. A recent fake news CNN study shows ...................

as an outlander, I can look at your sadly sinking country and see truth. Clinton only won California due to a rigged vote. Trump won by POPULAR vote and a massive majority geographically - loive with it. I predict he will get an even bigger majority next time, if he runs. IF the democrats did win, the world is ruined.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

I've come into this very late, but astounded at how stupid and bad ass losers americans can be. Its damned unbelievable. Left whingers cant take a defeat on the chin so riot and destory the countries historical monuments.

Let me remind these idiots. Who brought slavery to the USA? Democrats. Who invented the anti negro KKK? Democrats. Its amazing how much they forget that they started. In the 60s it was the left whingers who shouted down with authority!! In the 21C its the democratic lefties shouting if you deny authority you are a Nazi and fascist!! Make you're stupid minds up.

Whilst all this is going on, people are still fighting behind the scenes, undercover, fake news, cry baby politics. And the march of islam has created NO GO cities in the USA. And hillary still walks the streets even though nearly 100 deaths have been attributed to her and her 'foundation' which is sponsored by Soros and Saudi.

And STILL the people of the USA wont listen - bye bye USA, Russia will be the new world power, and I cant wait.

Originally Posted by Red Devil

correction. A recent fake news CNN study shows ...................

as an outlander, I can look at your sadly sinking country and see truth. Clinton only won California due to a rigged vote. Trump won by POPULAR vote and a massive majority geographically - loive with it. I predict he will get an even bigger majority next time, if he runs. IF the democrats did win, the world is ruined.

Long on rhetoric, short on facts and proof to back it up...








<O>

[vienna]

The Trump camp have been very vocal on trying to make the case the Russian interference investigations are based solely on the notorious "dossier" and are therefore based on false information. This is despite the fact former Trump campaign manager, advisor, and Russia-connected businessman had been under FBI and intelligence surveillance, including wiretapping, as early as 2014:


Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman --

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politi...ans/index.html


There is now a report the Russian investigations were jump-started by the indiscretions of one of the persons who have been charged in the Mueller prosecutions, and not one of the real heavy-hitters, at that. This reported slip is reminiscent of how the Watergate investigations took on a whole new track when a low level White House functionary testifying before Congress casually mentioned the Oval Office had a working hidden recording setup. The person in the Russian inquiries who let his loose lips sink the Trump campaign? None other than George Papdopolous, the, until his guilty plea to charges, little known Trump campaign and Trump White House staff member who, in addition to pleading guilty, has also reached a deal to cooperate with the Special Counsel's investigations:


How the Russia Inquiry Began: A Campaign Aide, Drinks and Talk of Political Dirt --

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/u...adopoulos.html

During a night of heavy drinking at an upscale London bar in May 2016, George Papadopoulos, a young foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign, made a startling revelation to Australia’s top diplomat in Britain: Russia had political dirt on Hillary Clinton.

About three weeks earlier, Mr. Papadopoulos had been told that Moscow had thousands of emails that would embarrass Mrs. Clinton, apparently stolen in an effort to try to damage her campaign.

Exactly how much Mr. Papadopoulos said that night at the Kensington Wine Rooms with the Australian, Alexander Downer, is unclear. But two months later, when leaked Democratic emails began appearing online, Australian officials passed the information about Mr. Papadopoulos to their American counterparts, according to four current and former American and foreign officials with direct knowledge of the Australians’ role.

The hacking and the revelation that a member of the Trump campaign may have had inside information about it were driving factors that led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired.

If Mr. Papadopoulos, who pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. and is now a cooperating witness, was the improbable match that set off a blaze that has consumed the first year of the Trump administration, his saga is also a tale of the Trump campaign in miniature. He was brash, boastful and underqualified, yet he exceeded expectations. And, like the campaign itself, he proved to be a tantalizing target for a Russian influence operation.

Of interest to note in the above, the incident with Papadopolous and the top Australian diplomat in the UK occurred a full month before Trump formally announced his run for the Presidency and several months before the Steele 'dossier' entered into play. Combined with the already ongoing Manafort investigations, the timeline shows the dossier was a later element in what was an already ongoing situation: the dossier didn't come first -- Manafort and Papadopolous came first...

As said before, the biggest problem for Trump and his minions is cold, hard facts and evidence, something in which the Trump/minion efforts to derail, obstruct, or abort the course of law, are very much lacking...








<O>

[Rockstar]

“The challenge — and I’m not picking on reporters — about writing stories about classified information, is the people talking about it often don’t really know what’s going on, and those of us who actually know what’s going on are not talking about it. We don’t call the press and say, ‘Hey, you got that thing wrong.’ ”

James Comey

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

“The challenge — and I’m not picking on reporters — about writing stories about classified information, is the people talking about it often don’t really know what’s going on, and those of us who actually know what’s going on are not talking about it. We don’t call the press and say, ‘Hey, you got that thing wrong.’ ”

James Comey

So, now you're quoting someone who Trump has publicly called a liar?...

Then again, the Trump apologists and defenders love to quote him and he is a very, very well known liar, so, I guess, it fits...








<O>

[Rockstar]

The irrefutable fact is Trump did not call Comey a liar in regards to what he said about the media not knowing what they're talking about. Personally I think what Comey said is spot on, wouldn't you agree?

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by vienna

Long on rhetoric, short on facts and proof to back it up...








<O>

it is impossible to provide proof to a democrat