SH3 Random Weather Generator [RELEASE v1.02] - Page 2

Skweetis · 01-06-06, 11:30 PM

Alrighty then! I know squat about Delphi... Ill copy the code into a text file if you like, or if you have access to VB ill just send the source.... its well commented so it shouldnt be hard to decipher.

Im not a proper programmer, I just work as tech support for a small software company, so I use what I have on hand and dabble.

As for the high windspeed in port, Ill limit it to around 10 kts...

If your worried about impact in the med (since it typically has better weather I assume, just IF around the problem by bypassing my code if they are starting in the med.)

Let me know how you would like it sent to you.

Cheers,

Jamie

JScones · 01-07-06, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skweetis

Alrighty then! I know squat about Delphi... Ill copy the code into a text file if you like, or if you have access to VB ill just send the source.... its well commented so it shouldnt be hard to decipher.

Just the .vbp file will be fine. You can send to jonesoft at iinet dot net dot au. Although you may like to keep pursuing, as I'm close to locking down the next release (actually, only data file changes are permitted now). The release after this one won't be until April or May.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skweetis

If your worried about impact in the med (since it typically has better weather I assume, just IF around the problem by bypassing my code if they are starting in the med.)

That's not the issue - I just don't know if I should be worried, if you know what I mean. If I simulate something, I like it to be based on supporting analysis and data (it's just who I am). Unfortunately, unlike nearly everything else related to SH3, with weather it's simply not as easy as firing up uboat.net and searching for the answer!

Basically, we spend so much time tweaking boats and everything else for accuracy, I don't want to distract with unrealistic weather patterns (just like my concerns with the "Seasonal" wave height option) - I want it as good as we can get it. Hopefully, someone will know the answer to your question around how rough is too rough to start and we'll then be sweet.

I have another question to add though: does the game actually model extreme weather in the Med, or are the extreme values lessened? (I've never been to the Med...although I plan to transfer to the 29th in about 6 months time).

glenno · 01-07-06, 12:48 AM

Latest rub and 15m/s winds and the schnellboats are still damaged/on fire from rough seas .
15m/s is too rough .

Skweetis · 01-07-06, 01:08 AM

Ive done some basic balancing (I've been an avid flightsimmer for over a decade, and understanding weather is part of the hobby

, and I have some limited sailing experience)

For example, fog will not be generated above a set amount of windspeed, rain will not appear if there are no clouds present, and the random generation formulas are based on percentages to determine values that will be created for SH3.

Unfortunately, the weather system in SH3 is overly simplified, and is limited in what can be done with it. There are three types of fog (from mild to peasoup), only two cloud types (partial and overcast), two levels of rain (but I have only seen heavy work, might be my vid card though) and up to 15kts of wind speed. the rates of change available are only none, mild and heavy. It doesnt leave much to work with, but does get the job done.

It would be nice to have the dynamic real world weather available to flightsims, but it is a bit of overkill for powered seafaring (sailing would be a different story however.)

Frankly once the initial settings are input, it is out of our hands and in the hardcode. Open a .mis file, and under the [MISSION] section are all the weather values we can play with, and only at the outset of a mission. And these weather patterns are global (though if the program itself adjusts for the medditeranean is unknown to me, but I assume it is doubtful)

The only power we have once the mission is started, is affecting the rate of change, and weather check (to see if weather changes) interval set at the start of a mission from the .mis files.

However, these are only my findings from the limited testing I have done in the last few days, your mileage may vary.

That said, I will do my best to balance the weather as realistically as possible at the outset of a mission, as I am a stickeler for the finer details, outside of that, it is in SH3's hands.

I hope that sheds some light on the subject, and I wouldnt have even got this far if it weren't for Hartmann's input (see the other Random weather Generation thread for the fruit of his research.)

Ill send the files to you tonight. If you have any questions at all, let me know!

Cheers all,

Jamie

Skweetis · 01-07-06, 01:12 AM

And as an aside, weather patterns are much more stable over large bodies of water than they are over/near land. Since it is the oceans itself that fuel weather, it is not uncommon to see a certain weather pattern remain for extended periods over open bodies of water.

Just look at any hurricane and how it maintains its ferocity over the ocean, and is reasonably predictable until it approaches land, then you have a whole other can of worms to factor in.

JScones · 01-07-06, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skweetis

Frankly once the initial settings are input, it is out of our hands and in the hardcode. Open a .mis file, and under the [MISSION] section are all the weather values we can play with, and only at the outset of a mission. And these weather patterns are global (though if the program itself adjusts for the medditeranean is unknown to me, but I assume it is doubtful)

What I'm getting at is, if SH3 *does* make any adjustments for the Med (and you're right, logic would suggest not, but...) it's all fine while the start weather is set to perfect. However, set it to something that SH3 *doesn't* use in the Med and there may be unexpected side effects. So, I think setting to "extreme" and then running a 29 Flotilla patrol should be tested. To the same degree, anyone that has extensively played a Med career should let us know their observations in comparison to the Atlantic.

One great bonus though is the rate of change randomisation. That alone should be worth the price of admission!

kriller2 · 01-08-06, 08:36 AM

Quote:

kriller2, your email bounced back... is it spelled correctly?

Stange... Yes it is spelled correctly, maybe the mailserver was down? try kriller2tester@hotmail.com

/Kriller

Skweetis · 01-09-06, 06:28 PM

Any feedback from the testers? Any problems? suggestions for improvement?

Im reworking a fair amount of the code, with suggestions and tips from Jaesen (thanks again) it won't make any difference to the end user, but while I'm in there changing code, I can deal with anything you guys have found!

Much appreciated guys!

Cheers,

Jamie

Panama Red · 01-09-06, 08:57 PM

When I tested your 0.90 beta, the results were:

1. Start of patrol in Kiel (IIA) - overcast, heavy rain, thick fog, 10 m/s winds.

2. Raining inside the subpens (so much for being bomb proof)

3. When I changed the Watch Officer to raingear because of the rain, he became frozen in place (looking inward) with his left arm through the middle of the bridge compass !!!

I then removed your mod, and reran the patrol, the Watch Officer did NOT have this problem when wearing his raingear. What do you think the problem is ???

I really like the change of weather, if only you can solve the frozen WO problem.

Hartmann · 01-10-06, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panama Red

When I tested your 0.90 beta, the results were:

1. Start of patrol in Kiel (IIA) - overcast, heavy rain, thick fog, 10 m/s winds.

2. Raining inside the subpens (so much for being bomb proof)

3. When I changed the Watch Officer to raingear because of the rain, he became frozen in place (looking inward) with his left arm through the middle of the bridge compass !!!

I then removed your mod, and reran the patrol, the Watch Officer did NOT have this problem when wearing his raingear. What do you think the problem is ???

I really like the change of weather, if only you can solve the frozen WO problem.

The crew in port usually donÂ´t do nothing, did you go out of harbour for test if they behaviour is normal in open seas ???

Perhaps is a glitch or bug of the game in port with rain. in this case they have to wait until open waters to change his clothes :rotfl:

Skweetis · 01-10-06, 08:18 AM

I had this happen as well during one patrol ( the "frozen" watch officer) I thought it was just mine. Once you get out to sea, and the rest of your crew begins their watch, remove and replace the watch officer, he will resume as normal.

I have NO idea what does this, as I dont affect anything but the weather values. Maybe this behaviour is linked to a certain combination of weather constraints? Get the weather details next (and every time this happens) and lets see if a pattern emerges.
The same happened to me in Kiel, raingear in a IIA. We need to find out if this happens with all boats, other ports, and when there is no rain.

As for the rain thru the bunker, unfortunately I have no idea how to fix that. SH3 probably does not model the ceiling for collision detection, or as a solid surface (logical really, as what U boat is going to hit the ceiling!

)

Thanks Panama! By the way, I sent you 0.91, did you receive it? it has an option to manually set weather.

Cheers,

Jamie

Panama Red · 01-10-06, 08:47 AM

Skweetis:
Yes, I received your 0.91, but I have not had a chance to test it yet. I realy like this concept of variable weather, so we just have to work the "bugs" out of it.

The IIA WO was okay until I took him below to change into raingear, it was when he came back to the bridge that he became "frozen" (except for his eyes).

Thanks

Skweetis · 01-18-06, 02:35 PM

Just thought I would update for those interested, with planned enhancements and functionality for the Weather Gen Utility.

Essentially this is a stand alone programme that generates weather for the start of a patrol, either by user specified values, or random. It writes directly to the .mis files, so no worries about it overwriting any moded files you currently have, making it compatable with any mod that is out there.

That said, here is what it is all about
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CURRENT FEATURES IN BETA:

generate random weather "realistically"
i.e. no more than 8 knots wind, no rain if there are no clouds, etc.

generate weather based on user selected values
ie. Windspeed, direction, cloud cover, precipitation and fog

randomly set "rate of change" values for clouds, wind, fog, and precip.
ie balanced for smaller rates of change to be more common, except in the case of winds.

randomly set weather interval check
currently between 2-8 hours. Doesnt mean it will change in that interval, thats just the timer for checking to see IF it changes. Set low for users that save and reload, as the interval check timer is reset, thus preventing a patrol that the weather never changes in.

PLANNED FEATURES FOR RELEASE:

User selected interval and rate of change values
Self explainatory, really.

Date driven weather patterns
Following in the footsteps of SH3Cmdr2.4, will generate rate of change, and interval values based on seasonal weather patterns. (this will NOT mod wave height, I am leaving that to SH3Cmdr) Expect harsher weather in the winter months, and so on.

Mediterranean weather patterns
Sailing for the 29th? Select the option and rate of change and intervals will be set accordingly. (As soon as I get feedback on how SH3 handles weather in the Med of course.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have any suggestions on enhancements, or have comments on values and such, let me know, either in this post, or PM.

I will upload Beta0.92 to realsimulation tonight so anyone can try it, and let me know of their findings.

Cheers,

Jamie

Col7777 · 01-19-06, 06:28 AM

I've followed this thread with interest, if you do a search you may find other threads started by me about the weather.
I've done lots of tests and played around with the files etc and basically come up with the same results as above without using any generator. I place the player sub with no other ships using the mission editor somewhere on the map, then I go hunting ships.
The ships appear from the campaign files, so this made me look at those files, you will notice there is also a weather reference in those files too, but the values are all set to zero.
If you leave your sub motionless and do a TC and keep looking every now and again you will see the first thing to change will be the wind speed, then the clouds, in a matter of 3-4 days I had varied weather.
I think one of the main problems is only having 2 cloud types, if we could change this whether it be eye candy or not it will make a big difference.
I made a few different clouds myself as I got bored with the stock ones, I manually change these from time to time but it would be good if this could be randomised.
I'm an avid flight simmer too and also had thoughts of (if only we had the weather from that in SH3) how much better it would be.

Please understand I'm not knocking what you are doing but I seem to be getting the same results without the generator.

Panama Red · 01-19-06, 07:03 AM

Skweetis:
Your Random Weather Generator is sounding better and better all the time. Look forward to 0.92 and thanks for your efforts.

Col7777:
If you read the new Commander 2.4 thread, you will see how to "add" randomness to the cloud formations.

01-19-06, 06:28 AM	#29
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	I've followed this thread with interest, if you do a search you may find other threads started by me about the weather. I've done lots of tests and played around with the files etc and basically come up with the same results as above without using any generator. I place the player sub with no other ships using the mission editor somewhere on the map, then I go hunting ships. The ships appear from the campaign files, so this made me look at those files, you will notice there is also a weather reference in those files too, but the values are all set to zero. If you leave your sub motionless and do a TC and keep looking every now and again you will see the first thing to change will be the wind speed, then the clouds, in a matter of 3-4 days I had varied weather. I think one of the main problems is only having 2 cloud types, if we could change this whether it be eye candy or not it will make a big difference. I made a few different clouds myself as I got bored with the stock ones, I manually change these from time to time but it would be good if this could be randomised. I'm an avid flight simmer too and also had thoughts of (if only we had the weather from that in SH3) how much better it would be. Please understand I'm not knocking what you are doing but I seem to be getting the same results without the generator. __________________ Silent and Violent

01-06-06, 11:30 PM	#16
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Alrighty then! I know squat about Delphi... Ill copy the code into a text file if you like, or if you have access to VB ill just send the source.... its well commented so it shouldnt be hard to decipher. Im not a proper programmer, I just work as tech support for a small software company, so I use what I have on hand and dabble. As for the high windspeed in port, Ill limit it to around 10 kts... If your worried about impact in the med (since it typically has better weather I assume, just IF around the problem by bypassing my code if they are starting in the med.) Let me know how you would like it sent to you. Cheers, Jamie

01-07-06, 12:48 AM	#18
glenno Electrician's Mate Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 138 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Latest rub and 15m/s winds and the schnellboats are still damaged/on fire from rough seas . 15m/s is too rough .

01-07-06, 01:08 AM	#19
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Ive done some basic balancing (I've been an avid flightsimmer for over a decade, and understanding weather is part of the hobby , and I have some limited sailing experience) For example, fog will not be generated above a set amount of windspeed, rain will not appear if there are no clouds present, and the random generation formulas are based on percentages to determine values that will be created for SH3. Unfortunately, the weather system in SH3 is overly simplified, and is limited in what can be done with it. There are three types of fog (from mild to peasoup), only two cloud types (partial and overcast), two levels of rain (but I have only seen heavy work, might be my vid card though) and up to 15kts of wind speed. the rates of change available are only none, mild and heavy. It doesnt leave much to work with, but does get the job done. It would be nice to have the dynamic real world weather available to flightsims, but it is a bit of overkill for powered seafaring (sailing would be a different story however.) Frankly once the initial settings are input, it is out of our hands and in the hardcode. Open a .mis file, and under the [MISSION] section are all the weather values we can play with, and only at the outset of a mission. And these weather patterns are global (though if the program itself adjusts for the medditeranean is unknown to me, but I assume it is doubtful) The only power we have once the mission is started, is affecting the rate of change, and weather check (to see if weather changes) interval set at the start of a mission from the .mis files. However, these are only my findings from the limited testing I have done in the last few days, your mileage may vary. That said, I will do my best to balance the weather as realistically as possible at the outset of a mission, as I am a stickeler for the finer details, outside of that, it is in SH3's hands. I hope that sheds some light on the subject, and I wouldnt have even got this far if it weren't for Hartmann's input (see the other Random weather Generation thread for the fruit of his research.) Ill send the files to you tonight. If you have any questions at all, let me know! Cheers all, Jamie

01-07-06, 01:12 AM	#20
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	And as an aside, weather patterns are much more stable over large bodies of water than they are over/near land. Since it is the oceans itself that fuel weather, it is not uncommon to see a certain weather pattern remain for extended periods over open bodies of water. Just look at any hurricane and how it maintains its ferocity over the ocean, and is reasonably predictable until it approaches land, then you have a whole other can of worms to factor in.

01-09-06, 06:28 PM	#23
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Any feedback from the testers? Any problems? suggestions for improvement? Im reworking a fair amount of the code, with suggestions and tips from Jaesen (thanks again) it won't make any difference to the end user, but while I'm in there changing code, I can deal with anything you guys have found! Much appreciated guys! Cheers, Jamie

01-09-06, 08:57 PM	#24
Panama Red Ensign Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Irmo, SC, USA Posts: 229 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	When I tested your 0.90 beta, the results were: 1. Start of patrol in Kiel (IIA) - overcast, heavy rain, thick fog, 10 m/s winds. 2. Raining inside the subpens (so much for being bomb proof) 3. When I changed the Watch Officer to raingear because of the rain, he became frozen in place (looking inward) with his left arm through the middle of the bridge compass !!! I then removed your mod, and reran the patrol, the Watch Officer did NOT have this problem when wearing his raingear. What do you think the problem is ??? I really like the change of weather, if only you can solve the frozen WO problem.

01-10-06, 08:18 AM	#26
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	I had this happen as well during one patrol ( the "frozen" watch officer) I thought it was just mine. Once you get out to sea, and the rest of your crew begins their watch, remove and replace the watch officer, he will resume as normal. I have NO idea what does this, as I dont affect anything but the weather values. Maybe this behaviour is linked to a certain combination of weather constraints? Get the weather details next (and every time this happens) and lets see if a pattern emerges. The same happened to me in Kiel, raingear in a IIA. We need to find out if this happens with all boats, other ports, and when there is no rain. As for the rain thru the bunker, unfortunately I have no idea how to fix that. SH3 probably does not model the ceiling for collision detection, or as a solid surface (logical really, as what U boat is going to hit the ceiling! ) Thanks Panama! By the way, I sent you 0.91, did you receive it? it has an option to manually set weather. Cheers, Jamie

01-10-06, 08:47 AM	#27
Panama Red Ensign Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Irmo, SC, USA Posts: 229 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Skweetis: Yes, I received your 0.91, but I have not had a chance to test it yet. I realy like this concept of variable weather, so we just have to work the "bugs" out of it. The IIA WO was okay until I took him below to change into raingear, it was when he came back to the bridge that he became "frozen" (except for his eyes). Thanks

01-18-06, 02:35 PM	#28
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Just thought I would update for those interested, with planned enhancements and functionality for the Weather Gen Utility. Essentially this is a stand alone programme that generates weather for the start of a patrol, either by user specified values, or random. It writes directly to the .mis files, so no worries about it overwriting any moded files you currently have, making it compatable with any mod that is out there. That said, here is what it is all about ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CURRENT FEATURES IN BETA: generate random weather "realistically" i.e. no more than 8 knots wind, no rain if there are no clouds, etc. generate weather based on user selected values ie. Windspeed, direction, cloud cover, precipitation and fog randomly set "rate of change" values for clouds, wind, fog, and precip. ie balanced for smaller rates of change to be more common, except in the case of winds. randomly set weather interval check currently between 2-8 hours. Doesnt mean it will change in that interval, thats just the timer for checking to see IF it changes. Set low for users that save and reload, as the interval check timer is reset, thus preventing a patrol that the weather never changes in. PLANNED FEATURES FOR RELEASE: User selected interval and rate of change values Self explainatory, really. Date driven weather patterns Following in the footsteps of SH3Cmdr2.4, will generate rate of change, and interval values based on seasonal weather patterns. (this will NOT mod wave height, I am leaving that to SH3Cmdr) Expect harsher weather in the winter months, and so on. Mediterranean weather patterns Sailing for the 29th? Select the option and rate of change and intervals will be set accordingly. (As soon as I get feedback on how SH3 handles weather in the Med of course.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have any suggestions on enhancements, or have comments on values and such, let me know, either in this post, or PM. I will upload Beta0.92 to realsimulation tonight so anyone can try it, and let me know of their findings. Cheers, Jamie

01-19-06, 07:03 AM	#30
Panama Red Ensign Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Irmo, SC, USA Posts: 229 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Skweetis: Your Random Weather Generator is sounding better and better all the time. Look forward to 0.92 and thanks for your efforts. Col7777: If you read the new Commander 2.4 thread, you will see how to "add" randomness to the cloud formations.