Falklands war your views

[Oberon]

The Falklands...I just missed that one but yes...Maggie.
A bit of a show for the Iron Lady who was getting worried about losing her grip...kinda like Clinton's trip into Kosovo. The tabloids loved it, particularly the Sun

[lesrae]

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

Well, a lot of UK friends in this forum topic.

For the UK, was a limited war, one of many post WWII conflicts (Korea, Suez, Burma...)

For us Argentinians was a total war. One still fresh in individuals and colective memory.

About my point of view, the recuperation (not invasion) of the Malvinas, by force, was a huge mistake.

Note that I only regret the use of force (and sure, the death of people from both sides).

But the goal of the war was (and still is) just. Malvinas Islands are a part of the argentinian territory, mutilated by a british expedition, back in 1883.

Controversial, isn´t???

An Argie point of view.

Very interesting to read an Argentinian's point of view, thanks.

I've always had a problem with 'posession' of territory, does the present day Australian own Australia or does it belong to the Aborigine who was quite happy living there before they arived? The same could be asked about the USA and Nativa American Indians or the current South Americans and native Incas or Mayans. Not great examples as in all cases the original inhabitants are now co-existing, to a greater or lesser extent, with the settlers. At the end of the day, it seems to me to be the old 'posession is 9/10ths of the law' rule

In the case of the Falklands, as with all wars, it was a waste of life. What sticks in my mind was the lack of information we were getting about what was happening, it was taking several days for news to get back to the UK as all information channels were controlled by the military, compare that with recent 'realtime' news of the gulf conflicts!

I've known Royal Marines and Submariners who served in the conflict, the common thread they have is an extreme reluctance to discuss it - war is not glamorous.

The most interesting technical point (in my opinion) of the conflict was Chris Wreford Brown's decision to use WWII vintage Mk8 torpedoes rather than the new Tigerfish torpedoes when he attacked the ARA General Belgrano (another terrible loss of life). This must have been quite a slap in the face for BaE systems who made the new torpedo!

[StdDev]

Originally Posted by lesrae

I've always had a problem with 'posession' of territory, does the present day Australian own Australia or does it belong to the Aborigine who was quite happy living there before they arived? The same could be asked about the USA and Nativa American Indians or the current South Americans and native Incas or Mayans.

Obviously the American Indians and the Australian Aborigines had way too lax immigration policies!

[lesrae]

Originally Posted by StdDev

Obviously the American Indians and the Australian Aborigines had way too lax immigration policies!

[Marcantilan]

Sorry, I introduced a mistake im my post: HMS Clio kicked Malvinas Governor´s J. Vernet in 1833 not 1883!

My fault.

Since then, and until today, the Argentine Goverment, every year, submited a protest note, to the UK and, from 1945, to the UN.

So, from an argentinian aspect of the problem, it´s about an illegitime attack and seizure of territory, by a foreing power.
(Similar problemas around the globe: Think about the Kurile Islands, Japan and Russia. Japan still claims the islands were it´s territory, and the usurpation was 60 years ago.)

And about the war, I know some veterans (a couple of Infantry army officers and navy personnel). Yes, as lesrae said, they are reluctant to talk about the war. But If I could extract some from the books, I think the most important lessons from the war were:

1) Technology means a lot in modern warfare (SHAR´s with winders won the aerial war, and SUE´s with Exocets ruled the sea)
2) Good training and motivation is the other half of the equation (I could think in Royal Marines, Paras, Royal Artillery, Argentine Air Force)
3) Back in the 80´s, UK girls were ugly (al least those filmed in the piers when HMS Invincible sailed to the south)

[lesrae]

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

3) Back in the 80´s, UK girls were ugly (al least those filmed in the piers when HMS Invincible sailed to the south)

:rotfl:

I think you're confusing ugliness with terrible 80s fashion sense

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

3) Back in the 80´s, UK girls were ugly (al least those filmed in the piers when HMS Invincible sailed to the south)

You can trust the ugly ones. The pretty ones, all they care about is themselves.

[snowsub]

Originally Posted by StdDev

Obviously the American Indians and the Australian Aborigines had way too lax immigration policies!

lol they should have sent Cook out to baxter.

Maybe that's what the Falklands are, a Detention centre for British migrants coming into Argentina :P

[Ghost Dog]

although I was a wee lad back in day, I do remember how most of the US and Canadian news anchors pronounced the word Falklands to sound very much like "Fawkan".

so being a wee tot of about 7 yrs, I heard it more like *******ing islands. at school I was say things like "theres a war going on in those fu**ing islands!"

I didnt learn the truth till I was about 11 or 12.

[Kapitan]

We still won we still own the islands they are still british.

[Godalmighty83]

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

3) Back in the 80´s, UK girls were ugly (al least those filmed in the piers when HMS Invincible sailed to the south)

if the wives were hot babes the sailors would refuse to spend months at a time at sea.

neither side deserves halos over there heads.


as a side note if the navy at the time hadnt had that stupid 'attack-confirm' system which meant sub commanders had to get permission from the mainland to fire torpedoes the war would have been a good deal bloodier and over a good deal sooner.

[XabbaRus]

I was only 6 but still remember seeing it on the news and wondering what it was all about. It seemed very ethereal adn detached.

However in some ways thinking about it the way that it took days to get information and that the forces could control the information was a better way tha todays video game live action street fighting in Bagdad news.

The one memory I do have is our neighbour who was a para in the war who was disgusted at the footwear our boys had and the shame he felt of his boys taking the boots of dead argentinian soldiers as it was a lot better.

[Falcon666]

Well, apart what has been stated before, the Falklands war taught something that every South American nation should have taken note of (I know Brazil didn't). A conscript military force (Argentine Army and Navy) is poorly organized, poorly motivated, poorly trained, and stands little chance against a professional military force (Royal Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force).

In fact, the only area in which the Argentines had some success was with Air Forces. Since Navy and Air Force pilots are all Officers that volunteered, and therefore they have higher morale, therefore they train harder and are truly dedicated to their jobs, unlike enlisted 18 and 19 year olds, who regard their time in the Navy or Army as a waste of time.

Other than that it's just a series of misconceptions by the Argentines that lead to poor decisions. First of all they believed that the UK wouldn't counter-attack, then they believed that the US would be on their side (or at least not helping the Brits with intel and logistics). And his final mistake was to believe that even if the Brits did bring a fight, that the Argentine military was capable of defeating the Royal Navy - which had been preparing for over 30 years for war against the Soviets - simply because the Royal Navy would be far, far away from Britain, therefore short on supplies, and with a long-ass supply line.


Finally, its just another example of the problems that any totalitarian country engaged in military operations faces. Even if someone disagreed with Gen. Galtieri and the Argentine Leadership and realized the flawed facts and logic guiding their decisions, that individual failed to express his thoughts, simply because doing so would have meant at best losing their job, and at worst death.

[U-533]

Conventional type weapons need to be tested some how for real.


The VSTOL planes and their carrier worked better than expected....

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

Sorry, I introduced a mistake im my post: HMS Clio kicked Malvinas Governor´s J. Vernet in 1833 not 1883!

My fault.

Since then, and until today, the Argentine Goverment, every year, submited a protest note, to the UK and, from 1945, to the UN.

So, from an argentinian aspect of the problem, it´s about an illegitime attack and seizure of territory, by a foreing power.
(Similar problemas around the globe: Think about the Kurile Islands, Japan and Russia. Japan still claims the islands were it´s territory, and the usurpation was 60 years ago.)

And about the war, I know some veterans (a couple of Infantry army officers and navy personnel). Yes, as lesrae said, they are reluctant to talk about the war. But If I could extract some from the books, I think the most important lessons from the war were:

1) Technology means a lot in modern warfare (SHAR´s with winders won the aerial war, and SUE´s with Exocets ruled the sea)
2) Good training and motivation is the other half of the equation (I could think in Royal Marines, Paras, Royal Artillery, Argentine Air Force)
3) Back in the 80´s, UK girls were ugly (al least those filmed in the piers when HMS Invincible sailed to the south)

Forgive my ignorance but are most Argentins not from Spain? :hmm: