We need a Reality Czar!

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by u crank

Rep. Katie Porter's office is in the Longworth House Office Building not the Capital building. And next door to the Cannon building. Was that building breached by the rioters? I can't find any reports that it was. Can you?

You see - it's not a real time strategy game. you don't get birds eye view and a minimap. Perhaps we can go back and focus on the important facts of that matter - your legislators feared for their lives while at work. I'm not talking about "poor aoc", but your VP as well. The attempts to play that down kinda gross me out to be honest. There are *not* "fine people on both sides". there is one side based in reality and there is another side, believing in conspiracies, doubting anything that does not fit their delusional world-construct and calling for violence against everyone not ... "on their side".

History teaches that you can't argue with such people, you mustn't use them for your plots, anything but condemning them and removing them from where they can do harm and spread their views to the gullible will result in repeating it.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

You see - it's not a real time strategy game. you don't get birds eye view and a minimap.

Actually if you go to Google Maps you can see the Capital building, the Cannon Building where AOC's office is and the Longworth House Building where Katie Porter's office is and their relationship to each other.

your legislators feared for their lives while at work.

They are not my legislators. I am and have always been a Canadian citizen.

The attempts to play that down kinda gross me out to be honest.

I for one am not downplaying what happened on Jan 6th. It was a riot and riots are bad.

There are *not* "fine people on both sides". there is one side based in reality and there is another side, believing in conspiracies, doubting anything that does not fit their delusional world-construct and calling for violence against everyone not ... "on their side".

I hate to break it to you but there are good and bad people on both sides. Those who don't accept this reality have taken a big drink of the proverbial koolaid. My issue with Rep Ocasio-Cortez is that she has in the past and is once again not being completely honest. I don't think she is a liar. The correct term is fabulist. She is a shameless self promoter and this is just another opportunity, a gift you might say to aid her in that goal. I am glad that no members of the US government were hurt that day including her. What she is doing is using those events to smear her political opponents. She accused a US Senator of attempted murder. Pretty shameful to say the least. The question is why are you defending her?

History teaches that you can't argue with such people ..

And yet here we both are.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

[...] I hate to break it to you but there are good and bad people on both sides. [..].

And this is exactly what i mean. Yes, there are "good" and "bad" on all sides, but the "sides" have also a bit to do with one side being halfways realistic and the other believing in absolutely insane conspiracy theories and denying reason, along with science.
Stop comparing reality and bogus as if they both have the same "right" to be believed in, or are both true, and handling it as if that both weres at the same reality level to compare them. They. Are. NOT.
You think you can compare a QAnon believer like this shamane with someone like.. whoever, Cortez?

It is like with someone believing the moon is made of green cheese, and another one saying it is made of rock and regolith.
You can be polite and argue with the green cheese believer, but it will get you nowhere. Do not let yourself get dragged down to this insanity level, the 'believers' will always beat you with experience at that level.
And the very last thing i want is to transfer any power to the green cheese believers, or to a crazy cult.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Stop comparing reality and bogus as if they both have the same "right" to be believed in, or are both true, and handling it as if that both weres at the same reality level to compare them. They. Are. NOT.
You think you can compare a QAnon believer like this shamane with someone like.. whoever, Cortez?

I don't think I ever made a comparison between the shaman and Ms. Ms Ocasio-Cortez. It is possible that they both can be wrong. Yes? The reality level between this QAnon shaman and Ms Ocasio-Cortez is a non issue. He is a nobody nut job criminal. She is a member of the House of Representatives of the US government. Who should be held to a higher standard? Who are we going to pay attention to? If people are going to hold Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene to this high standard (and they should) then why not Ms. Ocasio-Cortez? I find this hard to understand.

the other believing in absolutely insane conspiracy theories and denying reason, along with science.

I would say that the vast majority of people on the left and most Democrat politicians believe, despite scientific evidence to the contrary that a man can be a woman and a woman can be a man. Not that there is anything wrong with that belief. Be happy. It's just not scientific. And it is not a view held by very many on the right.

And the very last thing i want is to transfer any power to the green cheese believers, or to a crazy cult.

I think you give the green cheese people too much credit.

[bstanko6]

How can Biden assess the damage in this country? He forgets who he is most days?

If he really wants to unify the country, start by not destroying what over half the country wanted in Trumps orders! Stop dismantling and make your own!

Placing a tranny into the secretary of education does not sit well in this popular. Especially since trannys are a minority group. No one wants their children indoctrinated with lies and untrue science.

Start there Cornpop! The. You can have the children stroke your leg hair you useless disgusting communist pedophile!

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

I don't think I ever made a comparison between the shaman and Ms. Ms Ocasio-Cortez. It is possible that they both can be wrong. Yes? [...]

Again, i can't believe this! They are "both wrong"?!! You try to pin them to the same evel, no, they are not "both wrong". The level of "wrongness" is a bit different between the two, don't you think so?
Also I have not heard or read of Miss Cortez to promote violence. Maybe she is "wrong", but she is not insanely dangerous.

So Cortez was scared when someone banged again her door, which regardless who it was (she even said yes it had been an officer, but she could not have known in the moment before), some other colleagues told her to run and hide, and she hid in a bathroom, does this put something in perspective? The intruders were reportedly "everywhere". "Hang Mike Pence!", good joke?
OT here but i wonder how Pence felt when he reported to his boss next day, when the latter's followers wanted to kill him.

If people are going to hold Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene to this high standard (and they should) then why not Ms. Ocasio-Cortez? I find this hard to understand.

I somehow doubt you are as dumb as you want to appear here? Miss Greene believes in this QAnon bullsh!t, she is completely crazy! There is a reason you put some people in an asylum, but not others.
You really want to compare Cortez and Greene? They are not both wrong or both right, they are completely different.

A murderer and a boy who stole an apple. They are "both wrong".

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Catfish

A murderer and a boy who stole an apple. They are "both wrong".

Yes indeed. Being wrong, as you say, isn't a competition where the "least wrong" gets a free license to be wrong. There is no need to equate the two before calling both "wrong". Pol Pot was bad. He was real bad. He was not as bad as that silly moustached Austrian though, nowhere near in fact, but bad he was indeed. Wrong even. Not as wrong as that failed painter with a uniform fetish but wrong he was.

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

How can Biden assess the damage in this country? He forgets who he is most days?

If he really wants to unify the country, start by not destroying what over half the country wanted in Trumps orders! Stop dismantling and make your own!

Placing a tranny into the secretary of education does not sit well in this popular. Especially since trannys are a minority group. No one wants their children indoctrinated with lies and untrue science.

Start there Cornpop! The. You can have the children stroke your leg hair you useless disgusting communist pedophile!

Are you drunk? Are you having a stroke?
Trump was "wanted" by less than 48% that's close to half, too close to be a sign of a well educated nation, but not at all "over half". Biden even outperformed the "landslide victory" of 2016. Where less than 49% wanted Trump.
Would you be ok with transvestite landowners? I think it's high time US-education became more inclusive. on so many levels, actually.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Von Due

Yes indeed. Being wrong, as you say, isn't a competition where the "least wrong" gets a free license to be wrong. There is no need to equate the two before calling both "wrong". Pol Pot was bad. He was real bad. He was not as bad as that silly moustached Austrian though, nowhere near in fact, but bad he was indeed. Wrong even. Not as wrong as that failed painter with a uniform fetish but wrong he was.

Alright, but one took part in an attempted overthrow, or a riot, and the other (Cortez) did what exactly wrong? Did she lie? She told how she felt, and had even said she had then realized it was a police officer, she was just scared. So?

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Again, i can't believe this! They are "both wrong"?!! You try to pin them to the same evel, no, they are not "both wrong". The level of "wrongness" is a bit different between the two, don't you think so?

Well no I don't. As I said I don't think I ever tried to compare them. Someone else started talking about the shaman. It wasn't me. The only point I was trying to make right from the start is that Ms Ocasio-Cortez who is a member of Congress plays fast and loose with the truth. She has done this ever since her career in Washington began. If you think that is ok so be it.

Also I have not heard or read of Miss Cortez to promote violence. Maybe she is "wrong", but she is not insanely dangerous.

I have not heard of any other member of Congress promoting violence either. Have you? On the other hand she did accused Sen. Ted Cruz of trying to have her murdered. Perhaps you don't remember what happened to Sen. Rand Paul. Or Rep. Steve Scalisie. Words are dangerous and she is way out of line to say things like that which by the way is another lie by AOC. Is that not a standard that elected officials should live up to?

So Cortez was scared when someone banged again her door, which regardless who it was (she even said yes it had been an officer, but she could not have known in the moment before), some other colleagues told her to run and hide, and she hid in a bathroom, does this put something in perspective?

But this doesn't line up with what we have learned. The building she was in was never stormed by the protesters. The right thing to do would be to admit that she was wrong and maybe apologize for sensationalizing her experience. She wasn't the only one in danger.

I somehow doubt you are as dumb as you want to appear here?

Oh my.

You really want to compare Cortez and Greene?

I never said that. You are putting words in my mouth. I said they should be held to the same standard. There is a big difference. What you seem to be suggesting is that because you think Greene is crazy then we should excuse dishonesty by Ms Ocasio-Cortez. Say it ain't so.

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by u crank

Well no I don't. As I said I don't think I ever tried to compare them. Someone else started talking about the shaman. It wasn't me. The only point I was trying to make right from the start is that Ms Ocasio-Cortez who is a member of Congress plays fast and loose with the truth. She has done this ever since her career in Washington began. If you think that is ok so be it.

You may well be right about a politician and the truth. Of course I want some facts, if you have them handy.

I have not heard of any other member of Congress promoting violence either. Have you?

Meh... Yeah, I have. Just about anything Ms. Greene said. And the warrior-rethoric of the president reject & his minions surely did not help.

On the other hand she did accused Sen. Ted Cruz of trying to have her murdered. Perhaps you don't remember what happened to Sen. Rand Paul. Or Rep. Steve Scalisie. Words are dangerous and she is way out of line to say things like that which by the way is another lie by AOC. Is that not a standard that elected officials should live up to?

Absolutely. AOC never "handled" a gullible and violent mob, thou. If you leave a gun with a two-year-old (a frenzied crowd is not smarter than that) and something happens - you don't blame the Kid. I am not aware of the argument Ms. Cortez makes, but I think she's smarter than to just throw allegations around.

But this doesn't line up with what we have learned. The building she was in was never stormed by the protesters. The right thing to do would be to admit that she was wrong and maybe apologize for sensationalizing her experience.

again: she had no birds eye view nor a minimap. the building across the street was overrun by a frenzied mob. All of them supporters of that man that made you one of the worst enemies of the state the last four years. A splinter group could well have thought to cross the street and come look where she was.

She wasn't the only one in danger.

I thought she was never in danger?

What you seem to be suggesting is that because you think Greene is crazy then we should excuse dishonesty by Ms Ocasio-Cortez. Say it ain't so.

You should. Your house is on fire and you're sorting your socks, because they're in disarray. To be less figurative: Such "whataboutisms" are just used to distract from the real issue this country is facing. And that's unhealthy. Think of all the refugees that will pour into canada. EDIT: it wont be the rich landowners.

[Von Due]

Catfish: My post was about matters of principles. That was all my tired brain aimed at. Without going into matters I haven't paid much attention to (the two people in question), the principle that both a murderer and an apple stealer are both wrong was my point. Sorry about not making it clear. I need sleep

Onto truth in general:
Uncompromising Truth is a cyanide pill for any politician, anywhere at any point in time. Stick with the truth and you are politically dead. Your friends will abandon you, your financial supporters will run away at warp speed.

Reporters' job is to make headlines and sell papers/advertising space, and write what their employer wants them to write, in other word their job is to have a job to go to, like for most other. Truth or falsehood is irrelevant. If a best seller is true, then the truth is what they'll scribble down. If BS sells, then BS is what we get. A news outlet is a soup of truth and BS. Even RT or Tehran Today will tell you the truth, occationally. Even Fox News will, on occations, tell the truth. BBC, CNN, same thing. They will also tell BS when that pays better.

When news outlets use facebook posts as sources for their story (has happened) then we have reached the end. No further discussion neccessary. The truth gehalt is utterly irrelevant.

When we turn to social media for news, then we have no real reason to complain that the official news outlets are full of **** sometimes.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

I am not aware of the argument Ms. Cortez makes, but I think she's smarter than to just throw allegations around.

Think again.

"I am happy to work with Republicans on this issue where there's common ground, but you almost had me murdered 3 weeks ago so you can sit this one out," the New York congresswoman wrote in a tweet directed at the Texas senator Thursday. "Happy to work w/ almost any other GOP that aren't trying to get me killed. In the meantime if you want to help, you can resign."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/28/polit...ack/index.html

again: she had no birds eye view nor a minimap. the building across the street was overrun by a frenzied mob. All of them supporters of that man that made you one of the worst enemies of the state the last four years. A splinter group could well have thought to cross the street and come look where she was.

Possibly but now after the fact when we know what actually happened why is she still telling this fabulous tale? An intellegent person would review the facts and make those facts part of her story. She is not doing that. She is playing the victim card to the hilt.

I thought she was never in danger?

Apparently not.

You should. Your house is on fire and you're sorting your socks, because they're in disarray. To be less figurative: Such "whataboutisms" are just used to distract from the real issue this country is facing.

The logic here is difficult to understand. To excuse dishonesty in one person because someone else is crazy does not do anything to dispell the accusation of dishonesty.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ your latest twist of the story? Please.

I have to say i am out of this, i am happy those f'n four years are over, and i am TIRED of this bullsh!t. Nothing against republicans, but those who still defend riots and QAnon, and still echo the old long-debunked lies, can go to hell.

Aww, now that really cuts deep man! But if you're so TIRED then you can always just stop reading this thread.

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by August

Aww, now that really cuts deep man! But if you're so TIRED then you can always just stop reading this thread.

what can one do when he's a philantrophist?