Flag priorities.... - Page 2

NeonSamurai · 07-08-15, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

the Pledge of Allegiance does say say "one nation under God..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Only in our lifetime. The original pledge, written in 1892:

Quote:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

The "under God" part wasn't added until 1954, and was a reaction to "Godless Communism".

Yep, I can think of more than a few of the US founding fathers that would be rather upset with that change. But I'm sure there would be a whole lot of other things they would be even more upset with.

Other than the church thing, I'm kind of indifferent. I had no idea though that there was such a thing as a 'Christian' flag

. But I guess it is only used in a handful of countries. Why do I get the feeling some guy just decided one day that this would be the flag for 'all' Christians--of course without actually asking anyone else...

vienna · 07-08-15, 08:48 PM

I had honestly never heard of the "Christian Flag" until this matter came up and I began to wonder if the flag was a recent creation meant to counter the "Rainbow Flag; apparently, the flag has been around for a long time and even has it's own pledge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Flag

The Christian Flag Pledge was written in 1908, according to references I have found online, and bears an almost identical wordage to the US Flag Pledge; since the US Flag Pledge was written in 1892, I think a good case can be made for a charge of plagiarism...

Hey, isn't there a Commandment or two against that sort of thing?...

<O>

vienna · 07-08-15, 09:03 PM

A little more info on the Presidential Oath:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_o..._United_States

Some interesting info in there; the bible-thumpers were trying to insinuate themselves as the 'true national religion' as far back as the Founding Fathers. Personally, I have always thought it would be much more proper and appropriate for a President to be sworn in with his hand on a copy of the US Constitution, if he was going to put his hand on any thing at all. After all, there is no mention of God anywhere in the Constitution other than the pro forma "year of our lord" before the date of ratification. For a bunch of very much God-fearing men the modern Christian revisionists would have us believe as a means of bolstering their current arguments regarding so many things they try to co-opt, those Founding Fathers seem to have gone taken a great deal of care and caution to avoid any explicit or inferred religious stance....

<O>

CCIP · 07-08-15, 09:09 PM

Thanks for some of the informative background here, Steve and vienna

Now, I'm not an expert on Baptist theology specifically, but it also strikes me that there might be some religious issue with "God told me stuff so I'm doing it". Although I suppose in general, Evangelical Christianity does stress this idea of personal contact with God, but I didn't think that it was accepted as basis for making decisions like this, especially by such a major denomination. At least my hunch is that this could also be theologically incorrect.

Sailor Steve · 07-08-15, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Yep, I can think of more than a few of the US founding fathers that would be rather upset with that change. But I'm sure there would be a whole lot of other things they would be even more upset with.

As I've gotten older I've become more unhappy with the Pledge itself. I can understand taking an oath to uphold certain principles as a part of induction into National Service, whether it's an office or the military, but I find myself believing less and less in loyalty oaths of any kind. I don't need to prove myself to anybody else.

Betonov · 07-09-15, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Other than the church thing, I'm kind of indifferent. I had no idea though that there was such a thing as a 'Christian' flag

. But I guess it is only used in a handful of countries. Why do I get the feeling some guy just decided one day that this would be the flag for 'all' Christians--of course without actually asking anyone else...

In half of Europe and Latin America this must be the ''christian''flag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As I've gotten older I've become more unhappy with the Pledge itself. I can understand taking an oath to uphold certain principles as a part of induction into National Service, whether it's an office or the military, but I find myself believing less and less in loyalty oaths of any kind. I don't need to prove myself to anybody else.

I've reached that ''zen'' at 29

We don't have a pledge though, but I share the reluctance to being unconditionally loyal to the country.

Schroeder · 07-09-15, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As I've gotten older I've become more unhappy with the Pledge itself. I can understand taking an oath to uphold certain principles as a part of induction into National Service, whether it's an office or the military, but I find myself believing less and less in loyalty oaths of any kind. I don't need to prove myself to anybody else.

Is that the same pledge that a lot of students have to say every morning before school starts? I always wondered what that was about, I mean is there a law that says that US pledges expire after 24 hours and have to be renewed?

Aktungbby · 07-09-15, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Thanks for some of the informative background here, Steve and vienna

Dowly · 07-09-15, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I mean is there a law that says that US pledges expire after 24 hours and have to be renewed?

Dont be silly, of course there is no such law.

There is, however a law that makes you an unpatriotic ISIS hugging commie if you don't make your patriotism known at least once a day.

07-09-15, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

There is, however a law that makes you an unpatriotic ISIS and tree-hugging commie-faggit-nazi if you don't make your patriotism known at least once a day.

Fixed.

Sailor Steve · 07-09-15, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

There is, however a law that makes you an unpatriotic ISIS hugging commie if you don't make your patriotism known at least once a day.

Talk about being silly. Of course it doesn't make you anything. It just reveals your true evil inner nature.

Aktungbby · 07-09-15, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

In half of Europe and Latin America this must be the ''christian''flag

Actually:

<+]:¬) or +O=-)

Aktungbby · 07-09-15, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Talk about being silly. Of course it doesn't make you anything. It just reveals your true evil inner nature.

Or your true loving inner nature: Interesting story: http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/lone-man-refusing-nazi-salute-1936/

NeonSamurai · 07-09-15, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As I've gotten older I've become more unhappy with the Pledge itself. I can understand taking an oath to uphold certain principles as a part of induction into National Service, whether it's an office or the military, but I find myself believing less and less in loyalty oaths of any kind. I don't need to prove myself to anybody else.

Oaths are pretty meaningless, as people break them all the time. Those that would not break their oath(s) are already bound by their sense of duty, so they probably would follow their feelings of duty even without an oath.

But some people find it helpful to repeat such things to reinforce or refresh their sense of duty.

Of course it is also really easy to pervert concepts of duty, especially when mixed with a strong sense of nationalism.

Armistead · 07-09-15, 01:20 PM

Flags, symbols, religion, etc., have always been used to control people, sometimes for good, some times for bad, but it's a means of making people pledge to something more than themselves. IMO, the majority of this BS should be done away with, our only pledge to the constitution.

We follow a constitution and political figures still swear on bibles or we have to place our hands on bibles in courts and swear to tell the truth.

People that know our founding fathers know they basically hated any concept of religion in govt. Yes, they knew culturally they had to play the religion card or be ran out of office and many today try to use these statements as they founded our nation on religion, namely one. Heck, it still is done today by most politicians as they say "God bless America" or any other numerous statements while they plot their next crooked scheme.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07...ans-will-hate/

View Poll Results: Is the church right in its stance?
Yes, as our pledge says - One nation, under God.	4	25.00%
No, but they should have the right to take the stance.	7	43.75%
No, it is insulting to the flag and it should be halted.	2	12.50%
No, what if it was an Islamicist or Pagan style flag,	3	18.75%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

07-08-15, 08:48 PM	#17
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I had honestly never heard of the "Christian Flag" until this matter came up and I began to wonder if the flag was a recent creation meant to counter the "Rainbow Flag; apparently, the flag has been around for a long time and even has it's own pledge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Flag The Christian Flag Pledge was written in 1908, according to references I have found online, and bears an almost identical wordage to the US Flag Pledge; since the US Flag Pledge was written in 1892, I think a good case can be made for a charge of plagiarism... Hey, isn't there a Commandment or two against that sort of thing?... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

07-08-15, 09:03 PM	#18
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	A little more info on the Presidential Oath: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_o..._United_States Some interesting info in there; the bible-thumpers were trying to insinuate themselves as the 'true national religion' as far back as the Founding Fathers. Personally, I have always thought it would be much more proper and appropriate for a President to be sworn in with his hand on a copy of the US Constitution, if he was going to put his hand on any thing at all. After all, there is no mention of God anywhere in the Constitution other than the pro forma "year of our lord" before the date of ratification. For a bunch of very much God-fearing men the modern Christian revisionists would have us believe as a means of bolstering their current arguments regarding so many things they try to co-opt, those Founding Fathers seem to have gone taken a great deal of care and caution to avoid any explicit or inferred religious stance.... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

07-08-15, 09:09 PM	#19
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Thanks for some of the informative background here, Steve and vienna Now, I'm not an expert on Baptist theology specifically, but it also strikes me that there might be some religious issue with "God told me stuff so I'm doing it". Although I suppose in general, Evangelical Christianity does stress this idea of personal contact with God, but I didn't think that it was accepted as basis for making decisions like this, especially by such a major denomination. At least my hunch is that this could also be theologically incorrect. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

07-09-15, 01:20 PM	#30
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Flags, symbols, religion, etc., have always been used to control people, sometimes for good, some times for bad, but it's a means of making people pledge to something more than themselves. IMO, the majority of this BS should be done away with, our only pledge to the constitution. We follow a constitution and political figures still swear on bibles or we have to place our hands on bibles in courts and swear to tell the truth. People that know our founding fathers know they basically hated any concept of religion in govt. Yes, they knew culturally they had to play the religion card or be ran out of office and many today try to use these statements as they founded our nation on religion, namely one. Heck, it still is done today by most politicians as they say "God bless America" or any other numerous statements while they plot their next crooked scheme. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07...ans-will-hate/ __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.