ASW Aircraft Apr-May43 - Page 2

gi_dan2987 · 12-23-13, 09:22 AM

So 128x is the best trade off between speed and ability to detect/notice that you're being detected? I often wonder how many ships I've missed running at 1024x....

Jimbuna · 12-23-13, 09:42 AM

Yes.

GreyBeard · 12-23-13, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

is setkeys JSGME ready or is there another directory I have to copy the files to?

SetKeys is an external utility. Place it anywhere you like and then tell it where your SH3 directory is located.

gi_dan2987 · 12-23-13, 10:45 AM

Ok thank you!

sharkbit · 12-23-13, 11:30 AM

I've always disliked how aircraft seem impotent in the game. It has always been "aircraft spotted", crash dive, surface after 15 minutes or so. There is never any surprise.
I've recently been experimenting with a dice roll to randomly simulate the possibility of a surprise attack. When I get the aircraft spotted message, I roll 2 dice and multiply by 10. That is the number of seconds before I can dive. The dice are modified by some factors for year, night, etc.
It makes things a bit more chilling when you're watching a Sunderland coming at you and you're counting down the clock before you can dive.

gi_dan2987 · 12-23-13, 12:43 PM

That's hardcore man! The only way to play! The experience you want to have is decided by YOU and only you.

Ok so I (finally) started a campaign in NYGM3. Much different than GWX3 I must say, but so far I'm really liking it.

There's only one issue I have to bring up. I was tracking this merchant vessel for a good while, probably an hour or so. I spotted him when I was in a favorable position anyways, so I didn't need to track him longer than that. I took range/bearing estimates with the UZO at about 9000m off his starboard bow, and then turned to a heading parallel to track him. At the correct intervals I took my estimates with the UZO until I was satisfied and locked him in at 9 knots.

I also estimated his course to be about 015. Now with this I could spring ahead and get into an attack position. Confident about his speed and heading, and detecting no evasive maneuver, I got into position about 1500m off his course line. Not ideal, but good enough. I did all my final torp preps and setup battle stations. I took another reading through the periscope, and determined him to be on roughly the same course line 015. With that I used my formulas (which I've tested time and again, they're correct), to figure his AOB. He was properly ID'ed as a small merchant. With everything set, AOB and speed pre-factored, now all I had to do was one more range, lock it in, and shoot....and miss. There were no evasive maneuvers that I could tell. I tracked this guy for a long time and no variables changed, even up until the time I took my shot. Frustrated, I surfaced and put him under with my deck gun. Not my cleanest kill, but I still got the end result.

Now to the drawing board... What went wrong? What changed? What variables did I miss/mis-calculate? Up until I took my shot, I confirmed all my parameters and found them to be accurate. Could he have made just a slight course or speed change? Is the stadimeter broken? Anybody have any ideas?

Andrewsdad · 12-23-13, 06:37 PM

Salute, Dan !!!

There are a whole bunch of things that go wrong even when we do everything right !!

First thing that comes to mind is your torps may have run under the target. (I usually watch steam torpedoes on their run with the external camera so if I miss I can learn from it.)
If you have Hsie's mod and are using realistic torpedo performance then there is a very good chance that they were duds. He mimics that by making the torps run too deep.

Is it possible you accidently got your AOB backwards? (starboard/port)? Did you remember to put the TDC back in auto after you inputted the settings?

In real life, I think that most misses were due to errors in the target speed. That is what probably causes us to miss as well.

AD

gi_dan2987 · 12-23-13, 06:47 PM

I'm guessing it wasn't a dud since I didn't get a message saying it was a dud, but who knows. It's possible that a deep run happened, but I was using the T1 early war steam torps, I thought the early electric torps had depth keeping and pistol issues?

I know I didn't get the AOB wrong because I have tried and true formulas to figure that out to an exact number, as long as you correctly estimate enemy true course. I also visually confirmed AOB with the scope.

It was either a speed or course change last minute, or a deep runner, or a dud that didn't get reported. Either way, I sunk him, and now I'm going back to GWX3 because shortly after him I went on to sick a Medium Cargo worth 6,000GRT with one torp on impact, and it did the stock "split in two" thing

All is good though, as recently I've been doing more mod putzing than actual playing, so a complete reinstall of GWX3 is nothing more than a tedious way to spend an evening for me at the moment.

I've played SH3 until the cows have come home. Right now I think I'm just using it as an art easel to test mods and what not. If I screw something up, oh well, that's why I'm diddling around with SH3 and not SH5.

Well, gotta beta test stock SH3 to see if it's corrupted, then onto reinstall of GWX!

12-23-13, 07:04 PM

You don't always get the dud message.
I've watched torps bounce off Ships and gotten no dud message.
It happens and is just 'one of those things' ya live with.

Marcello · 12-24-13, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbit

I've always disliked how aircraft seem impotent in the game. It has always been "aircraft spotted", crash dive, surface after 15 minutes or so. There is never any surprise.
I've recently been experimenting with a dice roll to randomly simulate the possibility of a surprise attack. When I get the aircraft spotted message, I roll 2 dice and multiply by 10. That is the number of seconds before I can dive. The dice are modified by some factors for year, night, etc.
It makes things a bit more chilling when you're watching a Sunderland coming at you and you're counting down the clock before you can dive.

Dunno, the times I was bombed while recharging batteries with the snorkel before I got the radar detector on it or dodging bombs while leaving the port in 1944 have left me with a different impression.

gi_dan2987 · 12-24-13, 11:47 AM

Try leaving Bergen for a patrol in February of 1945... All your flak guns are roaring before you even leave the confines of the bay! And of course when you're in a fjord there's really no diving for obvious reasons.

By that time in the war, the allies were shipping in ONE DAY what it took the U-Boats a whole week to sink. Once that happened it really was pointless and futile to keep sending them out to their certain deaths.

I'm sure by that point is was obvious that Hitler didn't care, and was simply hell bent on killing Germans needlessly. Any scrupulous commander knows to not engage in a fight he cannot win. No wonder why some of those ocean-going IXD's defected to places like Argentina and Mexico. If it were me, I would choose a sunny spot in the Caribbean.. Jamaica would be good.

YA MON.. Now what about our submarine? (Kaleun and crew on beach sipping rum n cokes).

Marcello · 12-24-13, 12:53 PM

Actually it was Donitz who insisted for continued operations. The rationale being that the allies had to keep planes on ASW duty instead of releasing them for use against Germany, the inefficient convoy system had to remain in place and a large amount of resources in general had to be expended to mantain the global ASW effort. I do not recall any confirmed wartime defections, though going by accounts the boats which made it to Argentina were not the only ones whose crews made the attempt or seriously considered it as an option.

gi_dan2987 · 12-24-13, 01:18 PM

Not confirmed by whom? Do you think the German high command would actually "confirm" a boat to have defected? What do you think that would do for PR?

gi_dan2987 · 12-24-13, 01:22 PM

So Donitz was using the uboat crews as sacrificial lambs to keep the allied birds off Germany's doorstep. Sounds like the Nazi party to me. I heard of an instance where a German Uboat was ordered to fire all torpedos at the D-Day landing fleet, and then ram the biggest ship in a suicide attack. Obviously, that commander disappeared with his crew and was never found again, but the attack was also never carried out. Read D-Day by Stephen Ambrose. He talks about that event and also the Slapton Sands incident.

Marcello · 12-24-13, 01:46 PM

Quote:

What do you think that would do for PR?

For allied PR it would be a coup: remember that U-505 was used for war bond tours in 1945, they were not shy about showing off. A defection would have made a for a nice story.
I can't rule out that the crew of a boat might have said "screw it" late in the war, landed somewhere, sunk the boat and somehow go unnoticed. But AFAIK there is no serious proof that it did in fact happen and a lot of reasons to think it was unlikely. For a start you have to have the crew mostly agree with wartime desertion, which was perceived rather differently from the "let's go to Argentina" at war's end. As far as I can tell from interrogations and memoirs does not seem a likely proposition.
Then you have the problem of fifty germans managing to go unnoticed somewhere and keeping their mouths shut.
Not impossible given that there were several german communities in Latin America and that local authorities might be inefficient and/or sympathetic but not the easiest.

12-23-13, 09:42 AM	#17
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Yes. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

12-23-13, 11:30 AM	#20
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	I've always disliked how aircraft seem impotent in the game. It has always been "aircraft spotted", crash dive, surface after 15 minutes or so. There is never any surprise. I've recently been experimenting with a dice roll to randomly simulate the possibility of a surprise attack. When I get the aircraft spotted message, I roll 2 dice and multiply by 10. That is the number of seconds before I can dive. The dice are modified by some factors for year, night, etc. It makes things a bit more chilling when you're watching a Sunderland coming at you and you're counting down the clock before you can dive. __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”

12-23-13, 09:22 AM	#16
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	So 128x is the best trade off between speed and ability to detect/notice that you're being detected? I often wonder how many ships I've missed running at 1024x....

12-23-13, 10:45 AM	#19
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Ok thank you!

12-23-13, 12:43 PM	#21
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	That's hardcore man! The only way to play! The experience you want to have is decided by YOU and only you. Ok so I (finally) started a campaign in NYGM3. Much different than GWX3 I must say, but so far I'm really liking it. There's only one issue I have to bring up. I was tracking this merchant vessel for a good while, probably an hour or so. I spotted him when I was in a favorable position anyways, so I didn't need to track him longer than that. I took range/bearing estimates with the UZO at about 9000m off his starboard bow, and then turned to a heading parallel to track him. At the correct intervals I took my estimates with the UZO until I was satisfied and locked him in at 9 knots. I also estimated his course to be about 015. Now with this I could spring ahead and get into an attack position. Confident about his speed and heading, and detecting no evasive maneuver, I got into position about 1500m off his course line. Not ideal, but good enough. I did all my final torp preps and setup battle stations. I took another reading through the periscope, and determined him to be on roughly the same course line 015. With that I used my formulas (which I've tested time and again, they're correct), to figure his AOB. He was properly ID'ed as a small merchant. With everything set, AOB and speed pre-factored, now all I had to do was one more range, lock it in, and shoot....and miss. There were no evasive maneuvers that I could tell. I tracked this guy for a long time and no variables changed, even up until the time I took my shot. Frustrated, I surfaced and put him under with my deck gun. Not my cleanest kill, but I still got the end result. Now to the drawing board... What went wrong? What changed? What variables did I miss/mis-calculate? Up until I took my shot, I confirmed all my parameters and found them to be accurate. Could he have made just a slight course or speed change? Is the stadimeter broken? Anybody have any ideas?

12-23-13, 06:37 PM	#22
Andrewsdad Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 130 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Salute, Dan !!! There are a whole bunch of things that go wrong even when we do everything right !! First thing that comes to mind is your torps may have run under the target. (I usually watch steam torpedoes on their run with the external camera so if I miss I can learn from it.) If you have Hsie's mod and are using realistic torpedo performance then there is a very good chance that they were duds. He mimics that by making the torps run too deep. Is it possible you accidently got your AOB backwards? (starboard/port)? Did you remember to put the TDC back in auto after you inputted the settings? In real life, I think that most misses were due to errors in the target speed. That is what probably causes us to miss as well. AD

12-23-13, 06:47 PM	#23
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	I'm guessing it wasn't a dud since I didn't get a message saying it was a dud, but who knows. It's possible that a deep run happened, but I was using the T1 early war steam torps, I thought the early electric torps had depth keeping and pistol issues? I know I didn't get the AOB wrong because I have tried and true formulas to figure that out to an exact number, as long as you correctly estimate enemy true course. I also visually confirmed AOB with the scope. It was either a speed or course change last minute, or a deep runner, or a dud that didn't get reported. Either way, I sunk him, and now I'm going back to GWX3 because shortly after him I went on to sick a Medium Cargo worth 6,000GRT with one torp on impact, and it did the stock "split in two" thing All is good though, as recently I've been doing more mod putzing than actual playing, so a complete reinstall of GWX3 is nothing more than a tedious way to spend an evening for me at the moment. I've played SH3 until the cows have come home. Right now I think I'm just using it as an art easel to test mods and what not. If I screw something up, oh well, that's why I'm diddling around with SH3 and not SH5. Well, gotta beta test stock SH3 to see if it's corrupted, then onto reinstall of GWX!

12-23-13, 07:04 PM	#24
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	You don't always get the dud message. I've watched torps bounce off Ships and gotten no dud message. It happens and is just 'one of those things' ya live with.

12-24-13, 11:47 AM	#26
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Try leaving Bergen for a patrol in February of 1945... All your flak guns are roaring before you even leave the confines of the bay! And of course when you're in a fjord there's really no diving for obvious reasons. By that time in the war, the allies were shipping in ONE DAY what it took the U-Boats a whole week to sink. Once that happened it really was pointless and futile to keep sending them out to their certain deaths. I'm sure by that point is was obvious that Hitler didn't care, and was simply hell bent on killing Germans needlessly. Any scrupulous commander knows to not engage in a fight he cannot win. No wonder why some of those ocean-going IXD's defected to places like Argentina and Mexico. If it were me, I would choose a sunny spot in the Caribbean.. Jamaica would be good. YA MON.. Now what about our submarine? (Kaleun and crew on beach sipping rum n cokes).

12-24-13, 12:53 PM	#27
Marcello Planesman Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 183 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Actually it was Donitz who insisted for continued operations. The rationale being that the allies had to keep planes on ASW duty instead of releasing them for use against Germany, the inefficient convoy system had to remain in place and a large amount of resources in general had to be expended to mantain the global ASW effort. I do not recall any confirmed wartime defections, though going by accounts the boats which made it to Argentina were not the only ones whose crews made the attempt or seriously considered it as an option.

12-24-13, 01:18 PM	#28
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Not confirmed by whom? Do you think the German high command would actually "confirm" a boat to have defected? What do you think that would do for PR?

12-24-13, 01:22 PM	#29
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	So Donitz was using the uboat crews as sacrificial lambs to keep the allied birds off Germany's doorstep. Sounds like the Nazi party to me. I heard of an instance where a German Uboat was ordered to fire all torpedos at the D-Day landing fleet, and then ram the biggest ship in a suicide attack. Obviously, that commander disappeared with his crew and was never found again, but the attack was also never carried out. Read D-Day by Stephen Ambrose. He talks about that event and also the Slapton Sands incident.