Obamacare

[Tchocky]

Yeah, healthcare. How irrelevant.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Yeah, healthcare. How irrelevant.

This law is and never was about healthcare, it is about power and money.Power and money for the government under the guise of healthcare for the people.Really, if they wanted the uninsured insured, they could simply open up the medicare rolls for those who cant afford insurance, pay a low premium each year and boom, everyone is covered. No taxes, no mandates, none of that garbage.Divert some of the money they waste to this, problem solved.

[Armistead]

First Obamacare, then a single payer system. In the end the GOP will have to accept this as the better alternative, because Obamacare is doomed to failure.

no, because I am arguing with people who are just flat out wrong.There is a reason this law is so unpopular and it has nothing to do with "ignorance" of the public.

Really?
Come along young man, I am still waiting for you to enlighten me from my ignorance by your perfect knowledge of this legislation.
What is the matter? was that part of the legislation too hard, too complicated for you to manage even a brief summary?
Ok how about something simpler.
What are the provisions to ensure that something like sickle cell screening by the US PSTF is covered and the corresponding ban on insurance co payments for it?

You really should be more careful about what you claim to know, as you seem to fail every time you are questioned on your claimed knowledge.
When you fail you have a rather funny tendency to lash out by calling other people ignorant instead of taking a step back and thinking about the falseness of the claims you have made.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Really?
Come along young man, I am still waiting for you to enlighten me from my ignorance by your perfect knowledge of this legislation.
What is the matter? was that part of the legislation too hard, too complicated for you to manage even a brief summary?
Ok how about something simpler.
What are the provisions to ensure that something like sickle cell screening by the US PSTF is covered and the corresponding ban on insurance co payments for it?

You really should be more careful about what you claim to know, as you seem to fail every time you are questioned on your claimed knowledge.
When you fail you have a rather funny tendency to lash out by calling other people ignorant instead of taking a step back and thinking about the falseness of the claims you have made.

Yes Yes, lets ask about a part of a law I read in 210 after it was passed. A 2,000 plus page law by the way and if can't remember every little details, lets try to discredit, just stop tribesman, it's personal for you, you never prove your point. I offer points that are accepted fact much of the time. The law has a 15 percent tax on medical equipment along with others that are one reason costs are going up as costs gets passed along to the consumer.

I am just going to ignore you because it is personal and you will never be fair or try to discuss anything, you attack.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Yeah, healthcare. How irrelevant.

The explicit debts exceed the yearly GDP. The implicit debts exceed the yearly GDP by several factors. When you want something, you need to afford it. If you spend more than you earn, you get problems. If you live beyond what you can afford, you get problems. If you do not earn what you want to spend, you get problems. No matter how shiny your desires and wishes are.

These are simple truths. Likes and dislikes have nothing to do with it. The US wants much more than it can afford.

Even today everybody wants a party, and nobody wants to clean. Everybody agrees that something must change, but nobody wants to be affected by changes and reductions.

If there is one thing I "believe" in, then it is Karma, the inevitable and unavoidable causal link between cause and effect. People and nations will get from their mishandling of finances and their political decisions exactly what they deserve. And it ain't gonna be nice, that much is sure.


^ All this not meaning that just saying yes or no to Obamacare would solve problems. Its just a symptom of the psychological deformation crippling politicians and ordinary people alike, and socialism being an inbred genetic feature of democracy from all beginning on, always necessarily ruining it from within. So many more revolutionary changes than just Obamacare yes or no would be needed. In all major countries/economies on the globe. Simultaneously, from a historical POV.

I see no reason to be optimistic there.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The explicit debts exceed the yearly GDP. The implicit debts exceed the yearly GDP by several factors. When you want something, you need to afford it. If you spend more than you earn, you get problems. If you live beyond what you can afford, you get problems. If you do not earn what you want to spend, you get problems. No matter how shiny your desires and wishes are.

These are simple truths. Likes and dislikes have nothing to do with it. The US wants much more than it can afford.

Even today everybody wants a party, and nobody wants to clean. Everybody agrees that something must change, but nobody wants to be affected by changes and reductions.

If there is one thing I "believe" in, then it is Karma, the inevitable and unavoidable causal link between cause and effect. People and nations will get from their mishandling of finances and their political decisions exactly what they deserve. And it ain't gonna be nice, that much is sure.


^ All this not meaning that just saying yes or no to Obamacare would solve problems. Its just a symptom of the psychological deformation crippling politicians and ordinary people alike, and socialism being an inbred genetic feature of democracy from all beginning on, always necessarily ruining it from within. So many more revolutionary changes than just Obamacare yes or no would be needed. In all major countries/economies on the globe. Simultaneously, from a historical POV.

I see no reason to be optimistic there.

Christ, whatever then.

You do realize that laws have to be about specific things?

Can't just write "fix everything" and make that the law.

Also, for all the handwringing about debt you do realize that the ACA is very much a cost controlling measure designed to reduce the budget deficit?

[Ducimus]

I just found this, and it is undeniably funny.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Christ, whatever then.

You do realize that laws have to be about specific things?

Can't just write "fix everything" and make that the law.

Also, for all the handwringing about debt you do realize that the ACA is very much a cost controlling measure designed to reduce the budget deficit?

Cost controlling? A monopolist in blackmailing protection koney - the state - being in bed with a monopolistically-run business - "health" industry and pharmaceutical industry - delivering Americans a health care standard costing roughly twice as much per head than in Germany, and now costing even more people even more money - mandatorily? Why are people so eager to put foxes in charge of hen-houses?

Too big communities, too much cartel-stuff, too much lobbyism, too much monopolism, too much state, too much demand for more state, too much ignoring of the fiscal snowball disaster, too much bribery of voters by politicians, too much desire in voters to get bribed. Everybody wants to believe in Santa Clause, assuming that all those gifts come for free.

Meanwhile, the heap of price tags has outgrown the stockpile of gifts and presents. The giant hammer falls. We already can see its shadow in the sky. May take some more years til it impacts in the ground. But one day it will, and then its Sayonara all around.

It's all not to be solved within the existing system and with the established personnel and within the contemporary understanding of communal organisation, for the system is porked from A to Z, the communities are beyond any managable size, and the ruling personnel is deeply corrupted and has zero interest in achieving improvements that would necessarily include to make themselves dispensable.

The most social policy is the one that leaves people the freedom to earn by their work or own property what they need for a living, in fair dealing and trading with others, may it be customers or employers/employees, and so to come up for the costs of their living by their own work, and/or wealth. Anything and anyone interfering with this, may it be state, institutions, monopolists, "social" demands, must be crushed. What has ruined America's healthcare system and the social systems in Europe as well is lobbyism, hope for excessive socialist utopias, an intentional denial of most profound and basic rules of responsible economic and fiscal management, the basic principles of reasonable policy.

You cannot spend yourself out of debts. That is a myth, the blue flower of economics, the belief in fairies coming to your rescue. The only way in which lasting wealth - real wealth, not just bits of paper - is created, is by work, and canniness, foresight and preparation for bad times, living by what you can afford, not getting yourself into debts. That may not be sexy. But it is true. From generation to generation, it may slowly grow wealth that improves life for all. It may not be spread equal throughout society, but then: it does not have to, for the dysbalance is the motor of ongoing wealth production. The only thing that is distributed equally in socialist societies, is poverty and scarceness of goods.

I just had open enrollment at work and all of the preventive care is now at no additional cost thanks to Obamacare. No copay at all. That includes physicals, mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.

Well, that's news to some.
Come along young man, I am still waiting for you to enlighten me from my ignorance by your perfect knowledge of this legislation.
What is the matter? was that part of the legislation too hard, too complicated for you to manage even a brief summary?
Ok how about something simpler.
What are the provisions to ensure that something like sickle cell screening by the US PSTF is covered and the corresponding ban on insurance co payments for it?
Though to be accurate Buddahaid it isn't all preventative care only all approved preventative care concerning medical conditions in categories A&B, categories C&D still have copayments and deductables

[Tchocky]

Funniest part is the Romney sign on her lectern while she makes fun of the ACA.

[Tchocky]

Healthcare and pharmaceutical supply are not monopolies in the US. Not even close. So your basic premise is wrong.

As to saying it's costing more people more money. Yes to the more people, it will insure more of the population. It will cost some people more money, but you're forgetting that that money actually pays for something. Coverage of pre-existing conditions, caps on contributions. Things like that.

Also there's a focus on more preventative care, to make sure more money doesn't have to be spent later. I don't know why you're putting health in inverted commas.

EDIT - and leave it out with the "voting for Santa Claus" stuff. It's absolute rubbish and you know it.

In 2012 US voters had a choice between drastically lower taxes and someone who specifically promised to raise income taxes. They chose the latter. They chose to pay more for more services - not for free gifts. A plurality of UK voters in 2010 chose a party that promised austerity. As did German voters last month.

And for heaven's sake, the ACA is not a free gift.

[Bubblehead1980]

What? their own propaganda channel blew it.Dear Leader is going to be disappointed...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Healthcare and pharmaceutical supply are not monopolies in the US. Not even close. So your basic premise is wrong.

As to saying it's costing more people more money. Yes to the more people, it will insure more of the population. It will cost some people more money, but you're forgetting that that money actually pays for something. Coverage of pre-existing conditions, caps on contributions. Things like that.

Also there's a focus on more preventative care, to make sure more money doesn't have to be spent later. I don't know why you're putting health in inverted commas.

EDIT - and leave it out with the "voting for Santa Claus" stuff. It's absolute rubbish and you know it.

In 2012 US voters had a choice between drastically lower taxes and someone who specifically promised to raise income taxes. They chose the latter. They chose to pay more for more services - not for free gifts. A plurality of UK voters in 2010 chose a party that promised austerity. As did German voters last month.

And for heaven's sake, the ACA is not a free gift.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Healthcare and pharmaceutical supply are not monopolies in the US. Not even close. So your basic premise is wrong.

As to saying it's costing more people more money. Yes to the more people, it will insure more of the population. It will cost some people more money, but you're forgetting that that money actually pays for something. Coverage of pre-existing conditions, caps on contributions. Things like that.

Also there's a focus on more preventative care, to make sure more money doesn't have to be spent later. I don't know why you're putting health in inverted commas.

EDIT - and leave it out with the "voting for Santa Claus" stuff. It's absolute rubbish and you know it.

In 2012 US voters had a choice between drastically lower taxes and someone who specifically promised to raise income taxes. They chose the latter. They chose to pay more for more services - not for free gifts. A plurality of UK voters in 2010 chose a party that promised austerity. As did German voters last month.

And for heaven's sake, the ACA is not a free gift.

Here is what's going to happen. A majority of young healthy people will opt out and pay the fine, why millions of sick people join in. Insurance companies will see a massive increase in what they pay out, without enough money coming in, the result, premiums will go sky high....

Yes, we need reform, but seems Obamacare left out most the good stuff and implemented all the bad stuff.