New subsim, OpenSSN, in its early stages

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by redtyphoon

I took a look at some video captures of the game and while it has elements I like, that's not really what I'm aiming for.

Sir, video capture is NOT good enough in order to get a taste of the potential of this game! You definetelly need to give it a spin. Having missed this sim is unforgivable. The obsolete appearance of RSR is way missleading. The tactical potential of this ole sim is incredeble and can not be experienced from videos. You HAVE to try the game! I garantee you, you will not be disappointed and it will surely have a major influence on your endaveour! RSR has qualities that definetelly need to know. It is particularly how the different game elements are integrated into a blasting experience. RSR shows how the different aspects of the game are properly balanced. RSR is exceptionally well ballanced,as i feel. RSR is also to the point. I still would suggest to get it and spend a weekend with it.

I'm trying to get something closer to Seawolf SSN-21 (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...SSN-21_Seawolf)

Closer in what sense ?

Seawolf is definetelly the way to go. For that i apploud to you. But for an even better experience you need to inject a good portion of RSR into it. Basically take RSR slap Seawolf like station and weapon simulation into it and you have the best cold war sim ever.

Again, i urge you to play RSR for a weekend or so. Then you will understand what i mean. RSR is almost perfect as such. What it needs now is a modernization and this is where you could come in with your Seewolf approach. I really loved Seawolf. A magnificent approach. A Seawolf with a RSR campaign, that would be it!

But the bottom line is you need to play RSR first and this is not negotionable.

[redtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Deamon

Sir, video capture is NOT good enough in order to get a taste of the potential of this game! You definetelly need to give it a spin. Having missed this sim is unforgivable. The obsolete appearance of RSR is way missleading. The tactical potential of this ole sim is incredeble and can not be experienced from videos. You HAVE to try the game! I garantee you, you will not be disappointed and it will surely have a major influence on your endaveour!

Since I don't have a C64 kicking around, maybe you could tell me what it is about Red Storm Rising you liked so much? What specifics made it stand out as a good subsim?

[Julhelm]

Off the top of my head:

It has a really nice integrated design that lets you effortlessly jump between stations yet maintain perfect situational awareness all the time. For instance you always have access to weapon/contact/damage info regardless of if you're at the tactical display or at the sonar station identifying a contact.

Also RSR has a well thought out TMA system where your simulated firecontrol crew constantly update the solution for you but what you do directly affects it. Unlike other (training) sims it doesn't require you to manually stack the dots or lay out plotting rulers. Your crew does that and your sonar team will also plot enemy torpedoes for you so you have a much better idea what an enemy weapon is doing than in certain other sims that pretty much require you to man every single station. In RSR you are the skipper and is tasked with command decisions only.

Also it doesn't feature any dedicated sonar screen at all. Basically your crew listens for contacts for you and do a good job of it. I personally prefer that to other games that pretty much require you to sit glued to a waterfall display for no good reason. RSR gameplay is built around commanding a submarine, not monitoring a sonar display.

Also the campaign is simple and dynamic. Depending on which side has the advantage, certain types of missions are generated and transit takes place on a strategic map that of course features sonar detection so it is possible to do sprint/drift etc to get into a favourable firing position. A typical engagement can last anywhere from 15 minutes to hours depending on the enemy and your skill.

Oh, and it simulates blue/brown water ops as well as arctic conditions with floe and pack ice. Different areas of ocean have different sound propagation properties and map overlays are available that allow you to use this to your advantage. Also when you fire a weapon, you set a waypoint and click to fire. Mk48's can be programmed with different search patterns, given multiple waypoints and controlled directly.

I'm sure Daemon can fill you in on whatever I forgot.

[redtyphoon]

I think what you're describing is pretty close to my Grand Design for OpenSSN. It is my intention to allow the player to spend most of their time on the tactical/map screen and have most of the little details automated.

For example, the sonar crew will automatically detect and plot ships and torpedoes on the tactical map. The player _can_ go to the sonar console and watch the waterfall display if he/she chooses, but targets are plotted automatically. The same will apply to firing torpedoes, radar and esm functions. The player will be able to control these things from the map screen using short-cut keys and "let the crew handle it". Or, for those who like to get involved, the player can click over to the appropriate console and click a button to do it manually.

It is my plan to allow the player to focus on tactics and give helm/weapon orders. But also give the player the ability to get into more detail if they want.

At the moment it's too early for me to think about a campaign mode. I want to get the basics done and pre-planned missions first. However, I'm open to the campaign mode concept once the foundation is laid.

[Julhelm]

That sounds excellent. Are you planning on including a 3d engine or using prerendered cutscenes?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Perhaps a http://github.com repo?

PD

[redtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

That sounds excellent. Are you planning on including a 3d engine or using prerendered cutscenes?

I am not, at the moment, planning any 3D stuff or cut scenes. Right now my to-do list is more along the lines of adding torpedoes, writing basic AI and creating a framework for missions.


Regarding repositories, there is a SVN repo set up on sorceforge.net
svn co https://openssn.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/openssn openssn

Feel free to e-mail me patches. Please keep them small and well documented.

[Weps674]

Yeah! great! I was one of the two guys working on the project and would love to help you finish the work in any way that I can.

Michael, the other developer, got a new job and lost interest in the project. I decided that it was too difficult a project to complete by myself, but I have always regretted not finishing it.

Originally Posted by redtyphoon

Hi everyone. I'm currently working on a new subsim. It's called OpenSSN and can be found over at http://openssn.sf.net. My work isn't entirely new, it's actually a continuation of the work done by the LinuxSSN team several years ago. It appears they abandoned the project after getting some basics working. Since it's open source I've been able to take what they started and run with it.

Right now there isn't much to see (sea), but I will be posting updates here as the project improves and I hope you'll chime in with suggestions or send me some patches (if you're a coder).

Cheers!

[redtyphoon]

It would be great to have you on board. It is a big project to tackle and the more people working on it, the better.

[Weps674]

Sounds good. I am building a new linux box. :-)

[redtyphoon]

Hi all, I've been taking a break these past couple of weeks to work on other things and give myself a break from all things sub-related.

But now I'm back and making some improvements, which you can follow along with in the SVN code repository. Mostly I'm trying to fix some display bugs. Today I also fixed a bug with torpedoes and added the ability for surface ships to communicate.

By popular demand, I'm hoping to add sounds to this upcoming release, if you know where I can find some good sub sound effects, please let me know.

[Weps674]

You know I had forgot that the crew did lots of things for you. Also, didn't the crew get better, the more you played the game. In other words, they started out kind of green, but got fairly good at identifying, tracking, and fire control after a few missions?

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Off the top of my head:

It has a really nice integrated design that lets you effortlessly jump between stations yet maintain perfect situational awareness all the time. For instance you always have access to weapon/contact/damage info regardless of if you're at the tactical display or at the sonar station identifying a contact.

Also RSR has a well thought out TMA system where your simulated firecontrol crew constantly update the solution for you but what you do directly affects it. Unlike other (training) sims it doesn't require you to manually stack the dots or lay out plotting rulers. Your crew does that and your sonar team will also plot enemy torpedoes for you so you have a much better idea what an enemy weapon is doing than in certain other sims that pretty much require you to man every single station. In RSR you are the skipper and is tasked with command decisions only.

Also it doesn't feature any dedicated sonar screen at all. Basically your crew listens for contacts for you and do a good job of it. I personally prefer that to other games that pretty much require you to sit glued to a waterfall display for no good reason. RSR gameplay is built around commanding a submarine, not monitoring a sonar display.

Also the campaign is simple and dynamic. Depending on which side has the advantage, certain types of missions are generated and transit takes place on a strategic map that of course features sonar detection so it is possible to do sprint/drift etc to get into a favourable firing position. A typical engagement can last anywhere from 15 minutes to hours depending on the enemy and your skill.

Oh, and it simulates blue/brown water ops as well as arctic conditions with floe and pack ice. Different areas of ocean have different sound propagation properties and map overlays are available that allow you to use this to your advantage. Also when you fire a weapon, you set a waypoint and click to fire. Mk48's can be programmed with different search patterns, given multiple waypoints and controlled directly.

I'm sure Daemon can fill you in on whatever I forgot.