Time for you armchair economists to spin, again

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

...then we can let the Arabs and the Israelis shoot at each other over their desserts as much as they like without having every silly decision they make effect the energy supply.

I don't follow your reasoning Takeda. Why would getting off Arab oil cause us to abandon the Israelis?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by August

I don't follow your reasoning Takeda. Why would getting off Arab oil cause us to abandon the Israelis?

It's pretty clear that nearly every conflict that we have had in the region has the state of Israel at it's core. Without the need for oil, we have no reason to continue to spoonfeed the Israeli military-industrial complex, as the region ceases to have any strategic or economic value. As it stands now, peace and stability help to keep the oil prices down. Without the need to dirty our hands to keep the peace, and the prices in check, we can roll back our aid and spend our tax dollars on preparing our military for the 21st century.

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

It's pretty clear that nearly every conflict that we have had in the region has the state of Israel at it's core. Without the need for oil, we have no reason to continue to spoonfeed the Israeli military-industrial complex, as the region ceases to have any strategic or economic value. As it stands now, peace and stability help to keep the oil prices down. Without the need to dirty our hands to keep the peace, and the prices in check, we can roll back our aid and spend our tax dollars on preparing our military for the 21st century.

That still doesn't make any sense.

First off Israel hasn't been the core of every ME conflict. OIF, DS, Iran/Iraq none of those involved the Israelis at all except peripherally during DS.

Second our appetite for Arab oil has nothing do do with our support for Israel. The Jews don't have any and the Arabs still sell us their oil in spite of our support to Israel.

Third how do you think a war to the death between Israel and the Arab nations, the logical conclusion to our abandonment of the only functioning democracy in the region, would affect oil prices? Especially if Israel decides to let loose her nukes to prevent being overwhelmed?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by August

That still doesn't make any sense.

First off Israel hasn't been the core of every ME conflict. OIF, DS, Iran/Iraq none of those involved the Israelis at all except peripherally during DS.

Second our appetite for Arab oil has nothing do do with our support for Israel. The Jews don't have any and the Arabs still sell us their oil in spite of our support to Israel.

Third how do you think a war to the death between Israel and the Arab nations, the logical conclusion to our abandonment of the only functioning democracy in the region, would affect oil prices? Especially if Israel decides to let loose her nukes to prevent being overwhelmed?

It would be impossible for me to disagree more. As I said, nearly every conflict involves some state's, or group of states', relation with Israel. It's why Syria sponsers terrorism. It's why Iran sponsors terrorism. It's why Iran wants nuclear weapons. And every time there is a problem, we (the US) need to go and make sure that all of the stable governments don't go blowing each other to kingdom come. This always involves a tightrope routine in balancing the Israelis with the Saudis and Egyptians, who go along with the program, but only in the most unenthusiastic manner.

And so we take everybody by the hand and sit them down in the sandbox together and tell them to play nice, while they steal each other's Matchbox trucks when we aren't looking and blame each other for the act. And we do this dance so that stability, and our interests, are preserved. Once our interests are no longer in the region, we would have no reason to do the dance. It really is that simple. It no longer would matter what the oil prices were.

It is not, nor has it ever been, about democracy.

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And so we take everybody by the hand and sit them down in the sandbox together and tell them to play nice, while they steal each other's Matchbox trucks when we aren't looking and blame each other for the act.

Matchbox trucks? You are trivializing the likely death of millions of people Dude.

[gimpy117]

Back on the energy topic:

NULCEAR!

thats the only viable "clean energy source".
We need breeder reactors to be legal though. Then we can rejuvenate spent material. Where I live, we are losing our base load power. Everyone Is like "were hippies and we want solar, wind and hydroelectric!". The problem is, We have no large rivers, and the sun does not shine or a wind blow 24/7. A Fission reaction however, goes as long as you want to.