maintain depth

[Wolfling04]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The pressure is on all sides of the boat, pushing down, inwards, and UP. In fact the bottom of the boat is deeper and under more pressure, therefore the tendency is to rise, like a balloon. It must be trimmed in order to maintain depth. The reason a boat underwater tends to sink is that the boat leaks, which increases the internal weight of the boat, requiring constant retrimming.

Thanks Sailor Steve, answers my question.

[Krauter]

Lol oh God.. not another Argument Delphin?

First of all: I DO understand the principles of flight (ie: Speed [Velocity is in fact the energy of the aircraft moving forward], Gravity, Drag and Lift..)

Second: As Steve pointed out the Submarine (U-boat if you want to be specific.. A U-boat is in fact a submersible craft thus it belongs to the 'submarine' family of craft..) has pressure on all sides, the same as when an aircraft rises to a higher altitude it loses pressure (and thus air density) out in the atmosphere. How is the Downwards pressure relevant to keeping depth? If you have an upwards pressure that will play an equally important role in maintaining depth (Laws of physics.. Every action has an equal and opposite re-action)

Third: The point of NOT using the pumps is to remain quiet ~ stealthy, invisble <--- the tools of the submarine trade... Thus using speed to maintain depth is inadvisable as it broadcasts your position to anyone listening.

[DelphiUniverse]

Originally Posted by Krauter

First of all: I DO understand the principles of flight (ie: Speed [Velocity is in fact the energy of the aircraft moving forward], Gravity, Drag and Lift..)

You may or may not, but in the posts below, you didnt profess your knowledge. Perhaps you can improve on it in the next posts for all I know.

Originally Posted by Krauter

How is the Downwards pressure relevant to keeping depth? If you have an upwards pressure that will play an equally important role in maintaining depth (Laws of physics.. Every action has an equal and opposite re-action)

Downward pressure decreases when the angle of attack increases or decreases.

Originally Posted by Krauter

Third: The point of NOT using the pumps is to remain quiet ~ stealthy, invisble <--- the tools of the submarine trade... Thus using speed to maintain depth is inadvisable as it broadcasts your position to anyone listening.

I don't suggest using the pumps, I suggest maintaining a healthy depth and then a healthy trim to maintain depth.

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by DelphiUniverse

You may or may not, but in the posts below, you didnt profess your knowledge. Perhaps you can improve on it in the next posts for all I know.



Downward pressure decreases when the angle of attack increases or decreases.



I don't suggest using the pumps, I suggest maintaining a healthy depth and then a healthy trim to maintain depth.

Your arguments are turning in circles.

I'm not going to bite the bait about my knowledge or lack thereof of flight and it's principles. This is a subsim about submarines.. if you'd like to pursue that discussion PM me.

Downward pressure may increase as the *dive angle* increases or decreases as you concede. BUT so too will the pressure inwards and UPWARDS.

You CAN control it, with the pumps.

Here you state to use the pumps. I may just be pulling up random quotes, but I digress, my point is, using the pumps, though they're useful, defeats the purpose of the submarines stealthy nature. Unless you're contact is deaf or is plain stupid, using the pumps is not advisable.

[Wolfling04]

Get your suit Krauter

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by Wolfling04

Get your suit Krauter

I love a good healthy debate

[DelphiUniverse]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Your arguments are turning in circles.

My arguments is not turning in circles. I said you "CAN" use the pump, it does not mean you should. In my next argument I clearly said i favor a healthy dive policy.

Originally Posted by Krauter

I'm not going to bite the bait about my knowledge or lack thereof of flight and it's principles. This is a subsim about submarines.. if you'd like to pursue that discussion PM me.

You have already done so, there is no need to continue on your faulty analysis regarding the flight elements you posted earlier.

Originally Posted by Krauter

Downward pressure may increase as the *dive angle* increases or decreases as you concede. BUT so too will the pressure inwards and UPWARDS.

Yes, how could it be that we agreed on that. But you missed the point. The point is that you are working against less forces when it is pitched and therefore you are able to maintain depth more easily with engine power.

Originally Posted by Krauter

Here you state to use the pumps. I may just be pulling up random quotes, but I digress, my point is, using the pumps, though they're useful, defeats the purpose of the submarines stealthy nature. Unless you're contact is deaf or is plain stupid, using the pumps is not advisable.

Look in the top of this post.

[Wolfling04]

Ya know I just realized something, the deeper you go the more buoyant the boat will become,

Take this example, put air in a balloon and hold it a foot under water, then hold it 3 ft under water, at the 3 foot mark you will feel more resistance pushing the balloon upwards towards the surface, same basic principle with a sub.

At least this is my experience playing around with water and stuff as a kid. Don't take my comments and try to explain if I'm right or wrong, I'm simply stating my experience when I was a kid.

@Krauter I love good debates to but I must go to work in 20min and cant debate right now

[DelphiUniverse]

Originally Posted by Wolfling04

Ya know I just realized something, the deeper you go the more buoyant the boat will become,

Take this example, put air in a balloon and hold it a foot under water, then hold it 3 ft under water, at the 3 foot mark you will feel more resistance pushing the balloon upwards towards the surface, same basic principle with a sub.

At least this is my experience playing around with water and stuff as a kid. Don't take my comments and try to explain if I'm right or wrong, I'm simply stating my experience when I was a kid.

@Krauter I love good debates to but I must go to work in 20min and cant debate right now

It's true. But do you also acknoledge the fact that as you continue to go deeper, the water pressure weight will overcome the baloon-effect?

[Wolfling04]

I dont know, I could only get 3 feet of water

[Krauter]

Its all good Wolf

You are correct though, the deeper you go the more pressure is exerted inwards AND outwards (much like an airplane that as the higher it goes, the more the pressure inside the airplane tries to escape into the atmosphere).

In my next argument I clearly said i favor a healthy dive policy

Please explain this 'healthy dive policy' for my benefit because it does not make sense to me and I can't infer to what it means.

There is no need to continue on your faulty analysis regarding the flight elements you posted earlier.

-.-..

http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/princ1.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canadian_Air_Cadets
Thinking that if you go gliding or take flight training, as I had to, you would at least understand a little bit of the principles of flight

http://www.aerotraining.com/referenc...r_1_Canada.pdf

The point is that you are working against less forces when it is pitched and therefore you are able to maintain depth more easily with engine power.

How does pitching down or up exert less or more force on the submarine? Yes the part of the submarine that is at a higher depth will experience less pressure then the part of the submarine that is lower then it, but that does not validate your point that it is easier to maintain depth when the submarine is pitched.

I dont know, I could only get 3 feet of water

Cheers

Krauter

[DelphiUniverse]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Please explain this 'healthy dive policy' for my benefit because it does not make sense to me and I can't infer to what it means.

I already explained it. By choosing a healthy depth and speed.

Originally Posted by Krauter

-.-..

http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/princ1.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canadian_Air_Cadets
Thinking that if you go gliding or take flight training, as I had to, you would at least understand a little bit of the principles of flight

http://www.aerotraining.com/referenc...r_1_Canada.pdf

Are you continuing with the flight after all? Are you suggesting that these links will overcome your previous statements?

Originally Posted by Krauter

How does pitching down or up exert less or more force on the submarine? Yes the part of the submarine that is at a higher depth will experience less pressure then the part of the submarine that is lower then it, but that does not validate your point that it is easier to maintain depth when the submarine is pitched.

Pitching it is a neccesary evil to maintain depth. If you lower speed you have to increase pitch. It has to do with the angle water molecules attacks your u-boat. Water molecules "roll" as I said earlier, and you decrease the exposed surface of the u-boat at a pitched position.

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by DelphiUniverse

I already explained it. By choosing a healthy depth and speed.


Are you continuing with the flight after all? Are you suggesting that these links will overcome your previous statements?



Pitching it is a neccesary evil to maintain depth. If you lower speed you have to increase pitch. It has to do with the angle water molecules attacks your u-boat. Water molecules "roll" as I said earlier, and you decrease the exposed surface of the u-boat at a pitched position.

Then explain the 'healthy' part of your diving and speed?

Your thinking submarines are alike to airplanes when they are not..

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_submarines_work

http://science.howstuffworks.com/tra.../submarine.htm

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_a...depth_in_water

Hopefully you gather the correct information from these links (assuming you are even following them).

I am done however because trying to prove the point to you is like trying to explain things to a child or someone who does not even provide facts, nor follows up on facts provided by others.

Cheers,

Krauter

No I am pointing to the fact that I do have some knowledge on the principles of flight. These links will help validate my experience and the points I made.

[robbo180265]

Perhaps this link may also help chaps *grabs popcorn*


http://www.heiszwolf.com/subs/tech/tech01.html

[DelphiUniverse]

Originally Posted by Krauter

No I am pointing to the fact that I do have some knowledge on the principles of flight. These links will help validate my experience and the points I made.

I am not googling anything like you are. But you havent made any points whatsoever, so here is your last mistake. The only points you made was about the faulty analysis of airo dynamics. You have only been asking questions to me, never made any point. I suggest that you dont walk into a self delusion. Watch through your posts again. And have a nice day you too.