The four bearings method

[Nausicaa]

I have read it. Very cool solution, thank you a lot for the effort !

[Sailor Steve]

Very nice!

[irish1958]

Kuikueg,
Excellent paper
Thanks for your effort. And welcome aboard to Subsim. I hope you enjoy this group of people.

"Keep up the good work."

[jmr]

Very cool stuff there. You might find this thread by Mittelwaechter interesting:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110619

[Kuikueg]

Originally Posted by jmr

Very cool stuff there. You might find this thread by Mittelwaechter interesting:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110619

Yes, I have seen it. It is interesting, but unnecessarily complicated. He solves for the case when the three first bearings are taken from the same spot and, as I have proved, the course then can be obtained just by drawing two points and two lines in a matter of seconds.

[geosub1978]

This plot is called "Strip Plot". It is not as simple as it seems and has many subcases that affect the result. Anyway, I tried to evaluate it some time ago, but it is too confusing with the given tools. You need multi-point dividing rulers for varius speeds and for diffrent time intervals and diffrent scales.

[Zedi]

As I'm desperate to play at 100% realism, I tried this method. Got my contact and started the drawings. When I was done, the horizon was clear

[Pisces]

Well succes is never garuanteed, while more practise does seem to make perfect. How long were your intervals? And was it still audible on your hydrophone at the destination location? Did you track it down the iterative way? (traveling along the sound direction) If so, how far off was your prediction? Also, was it the stationary method, or were you moving the whole time?

[makman94]

hello to all,

i made a tutorial video that is showing Kuikueg's excellent geometrical solution !

you can find it at my ff page,it's called ''The Ultimate Hydrohunt Video!''
the video is totally uncut (duration:50 minutes,size:270mb),showing the whole procedure from its start till the end (the 'kill').

---> first you have to download Kuikueg's method and study it carefully.then run the video.<----

i believe that Kuikueg's thread didn't had the attention that deserves to have.
this method is ,by far, the best that ever posted as for hydrophone's themes.it is the most complete method by all till today(the ONLY one that 'dared' to deal with a moving sub or...no?) and it is solving this (really difficult) problem with a very very...elegant solution! geometry always ...rules.


@Kuikueg : this video is devoted to you and thank you for sharing your solution with us.much appreciated...

[reaper7]

Originally Posted by makman94

hello to all,

i made a tutorial video that is showing Kuikueg's excellent geometrical solution !

you can find it at my ff page,it's called ''The Ultimate Hydrohunt Video!''
the video is totally uncut (duration:50 minutes,size:270mb),showing the whole procedure from its start till the end (the 'kill').

---> first you have to download Kuikueg's method and study it carefully.then run the video.<----

i believe that Kuikueg's thread didn't had the attention that deserves to have.
this method is ,by far, the best that ever posted as for hydrophone's themes.it is the most complete method by all till today(the ONLY one that 'dared' to deal with a moving sub or...no?) and it is solving this (really difficult) problem with a very very...elegant solution! geometry always ...rules.


@Kuikueg : this video is devoted to you and thank you for sharing your solution with us.much appreciated...

Thank you Makman94 for posting this Vid. I was hoping Kuikueg's would get around to making a vid of it in action.
Downloading it now and look forward to watching .

[Kuikueg]

Originally Posted by makman94

hello to all,

i made a tutorial video that is showing Kuikueg's excellent geometrical solution !

you can find it at my ff page,it's called ''The Ultimate Hydrohunt Video!''
the video is totally uncut (duration:50 minutes,size:270mb),showing the whole procedure from its start till the end (the 'kill').

---> first you have to download Kuikueg's method and study it carefully.then run the video.<----

i believe that Kuikueg's thread didn't had the attention that deserves to have.
this method is ,by far, the best that ever posted as for hydrophone's themes.it is the most complete method by all till today(the ONLY one that 'dared' to deal with a moving sub or...no?) and it is solving this (really difficult) problem with a very very...elegant solution! geometry always ...rules.


@Kuikueg : this video is devoted to you and thank you for sharing your solution with us.much appreciated...

Thank you very much, makman. Excellent video and good seamanship. I intended to do one myself but I could not get the sound recorded and I barely have time to play anyway so I gave up for the moment. And luckily too because your way of doing it is a lot more economical and cleaner than mine. About your tutorial I would only like to point out that accuracy does not depend on the technique itself but on the degree to which bearings approach parallelism, either to each other or to the the red line. That is where seamanship comes to play a role. The situation you set up in your video is, in my opinion, quite average. You cannot expect to have close to orthogonal bearings and sometimes you'll be in a nearly parallel course and speed to your target in which case the calculations will not provide any information.

I love your set of mods, can I get a list?

PS: makman:I believe my PM's are not reaching you, something is wrong with the forums or my settings. Please confirm.

[Jan Kyster]

Could you re-upload, please?

Getting an "Oops! An unexpected error (-1) has occurred." when clicking your link...

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by Jan Kyster

Could you re-upload, please?

Getting an "Oops! An unexpected error (-1) has occurred." when clicking your link...

He means the link that Kuikueg placed in his first message.

makman94's link in his Filefront profile is ok. ( http://www.filefront.com/17099789/Th...nt-Video-.rar/ )

[Kuikueg]

http://www.filefront.com/17135612/fo...ngs_method.pdf

[makman94]

hi Kuikueg,

no, no, i didn't meant at video that the technique has an acceptable 'error'.you see,english are not my language and many times don't help to express myself correct !

the solution is geometrically 100% correct ! it is the fact that sh3 is NOT a simulator (exept the manual targeting system) and ,as many drawings at navmap didn't made at 100% accurate (some circles and lines didn't drawn at the higher zoom or made fast) , there is the cuase of this 3 degrees error at target's course . also ,more than two points for the 'red line' must be found in order to get a more,as possible, accurate 'red line' .

red line is very critical becuase it will determine the exact position of target.a small error at the target's position (caused by a non 100% correct 'red line') can be reduced later by taking the last bearing at a time that is a multiple of the time's intervals that we used. i mean, if the time intervals are 10 minutes (as in the video) then the last bearing to be taken after 20 or 30 or...etc minutes . that way ,we can reduce a little the false at target's course that may be caused by a non very good 'red line' .

but then, it becomes a little more complicated to make the drawings (plus the need to make all drawings to higher zoom level) and the video would be endless ...
that's why i made the drawings less accurate (to be faster for a ..shorter video) and,also,thats why i am saying at video that target's speed will be close to true speed if taken by map becuase target's course will be close to true course and i used the scope to get the accurate target's speed.

about the 'seamanship' : you can watch the behaviour of hydroline and adjust your course that way that when you take the 'third' bearing to 'cutting' (if possible) the first bearing (you will have an 'idea' of the situation becuase there would be also the 'second' bearing) . that way you are avoiding the parallelism of these two .(for that reason ,at video, i am moving almost vertically to 'forth' bearing -in order to 'cut' it as soon as possible- with the 'sixth'(last) bearing.that way ,there is no possibility of parallel bearings).of course, i agree that would be situations that you will be 'lost' ,nobody is saying that it is an easy task but i believe that in reality the captain was ,indeed , stick to the sonarman watching the behaviour of 'hydroline'(hydro hunt situations) in order to decide the next course which ,sometimes , will not be the better one and target will be ...lost ! i think that this was happening back then.

my message is becoming ...endless (but it is really interesting theme) so i will stop here. but if you want to see the results if all drawings are made as accurate as possible (with lot of patience) see this video :

http://rapidshare.com/files/40834347...t_position.rar

i played again the mission and made the drawings as accurate as possible(following the same courses for my boat)...it is just the time of the verification of the exact target's position (the most critical part of the method)...which means that we have the proper 'red line').the result is on your screen...

ps1 : no messages from you ! resend (if possible)

ps2 : my mod list (on gwx3) is :

GWX - English Nav Map and Grid Refs
WaterStream+exhaust+lifeboatv4
GWX - Enhanced Damage Effects
TMT v2 with EFS
RACERBOY EXPLOSIONS
Uboat Guns 1.2a for GWX3.0
Music-MANOS
M.E.P v3
M.E.P v3-Patch
M.E.Pv3 VisualSensors-GWX3
Blank Campaign
MaGui v3.3 (gia mena)
optional-No Stealthmeter for MaGui 3.3
Wooden_Lifeboats_Mod_1.1
VIIC-U58