Operational level war gaming. - Page 2

Deamon · 01-31-09, 07:15 AM

What is the scale of the possible battles ? Can I conquer the whole world ?

Skybird · 01-31-09, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deamon

What is the scale of the possible battles ? Can I conquer the whole world ?

As long as you do not try to leave the Aegean, yes.

http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec...DE=&CACHE_ID=0

Lieste · 01-31-09, 07:59 AM

Establishments are fixed, and cannot be ammended by the end user. This means that the 100% strength platoon/company/batallion sizes and equipment lists for each nation and type/subtype of unit are not modifiable. Strength can be set to greater or lesser than the default, but any excess equipment will be discarded if the unit routs.

They are generally complete for use within the original theatre, and similarity of equipment allows some flexibility of theatre and date, but this is fairly limited. (patches tend to address the more important defecits)
Most equipment is therefore early war German/Italian/Commonwealth stuff, but for the planned operation Herkales there are some KV1/KV2 companies - which make very little difference as they are so rare that you just delay them while cutting them off from their support/supply units, then let them wither...

The Orbat is completely flexible though, and it is possible to combine the sub-unit building blocks into any force structure you need. I know of at least one operation set around Narvik, and one depicting Op Sealion for the COTA engine.

Scenarios are usually larger than the tutorials (Regimental/Brigade, and short 36hrs-72hrs), many are delay/pursuit rather than fight to the last man affairs, but they can be Corps sized, and last for over a week.

In the longer battles a major factor is deciding whether to keep bulling through with both sides in disorder and increasing exhaustion, or to regroup and rest, allowing more strength to be thrown into the fight, but at the expense of allowing enemy units to extricate themselves from out of supply pockets, to re-arm and re-supply and to dig in covering the next delay line.

Lieste · 01-31-09, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Lieste,

I really owe you one. Thank you so much for pointing us/me at COTA! I am still busy with the first tutorial, and I love the system and design, this is easily the best CoSim system that I ever became aware of. I am currently struggling with the handling of the many display options of the interface, it is all not difficult, nothing there is difficult- it just is so much, it is complex in the ammount of details. However, gameplay itself is so very elegant, easy to handle - and still very realistic in possibilities, in ways-to-do, in unfolding action-and-reaction.

AI I always take under separate, critical review, and in COTA it seems to be awfully good. this is one of the very best AIs I have ever seen in action in any game. Especially the tactical AI is so good that I cannot identify it to be a machine so far. Whether or not the strategic, longtermed AI in huge scenarios is en par, I cannot judge at the moment, I am not far enough into the game. But even if it looses a bit, it still would be very, very good then. I assume it also depends on the clever (or not so clever) scenario design.

It first also reminded me of some kind of "land-version" of a bug-free, stable Harpoon. I meanwhile understood that it is far better, in all aspects.

Some times ago I dreamed a daydream of using the SBP map tool for a strategy module in the SBP universe, and I dreamed of something like this. It became true, in a way!

Very great thing this sim is, guys. If you are into this kind of sims, this is the ultimate must-have in the genre.

Lieste is hereby awarded the Tip-Of-The-Month Award in Gold with Bar!

For those interested, be informed that the sim trains you via two printed tutorials (90 and 70 pages of full-of information pages, plus prepared savegames that could be called up chapterwise), and then has a third manual for reference: 200 pages, 55 pages of map maker manual, and 80 pages of scenario maker manual. there also is a 20 pages document on strategy, more community stuff is available online.

My pleasure

I love the short first tutorial - I'll often play it as a 'pick-up' game if I've got an hour or two. It is quite easy to accomplish what is asked of you, as you have lots of support and 3:1 in strength, which you can apply to roughly 1/3 of his force in the first attack at 9:1. Your troops cannot attack continously from Yef Alamanas to Lamia though, their attack will peter out and they will need to stop before the end of the 36 hours. Sometimes it is better to rest, before marching your troops to a new forming-up-point and assaulting the next objective with fresh troops if the first attack hasn't pocketed units... you will want to destroy these whenever practical.

It is strongly recommended to play with delays set to the highest two settings - I prefer "painfully realistic" (sic), but some others report a preferrence for a little bit more responsiveness. A lot of the fun of the system comes from looking at the current situation and deciding what you will want to be doing in a hour, and passing the necessary orders to get this to happen, and then watching the plan go wrong... even better is when you watch your opponents plan fall apart though, especially when you plough his HQ under while his units are milling around in confusion... that sort of thing can take some time to sort out

Lieste · 10-19-09, 07:06 PM

There is a new AAR of the proposed demo posted by Arjuna over at the matrix site: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2269933

This suggests that the title is nearing release date, although it could still be several months away. It does however confirm that there will finally be a demo of the refined modern AA/CO series to supersede the RDOA one.
Demo will be a four day battle with reinforcements from both sides, raising force strength from Regt/Bde to ~Division. Can be played from either side, or HtH.

Skybird · 10-20-09, 04:27 AM

Checked!

Raptor1 · 10-21-09, 09:34 AM

Awesome, I've been waiting for this one a long time. The AA series is one of my favourite computer wargames.

Lieste · 05-07-10, 07:53 PM

Bringing this one up again, as a new official video of the Game Concepts has been released at Matrix (Dave Arjuna the lead programmer narrates).

30mins/100+ MB

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm...&key=&#2461948

There will be more official 'Dave Arjuna' tutorial videos, a demo, and the release date looks pretty close, given these are the 'final' versions of the video documentation...

Personally I'd skip the other non-official recent 'video AAR' though - it doesn't show the strengths of the system very well as you can't get "close enough" to see what is going on...

Lieste · 05-26-10, 02:53 PM

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2477694

Raptor1 · 05-26-10, 04:59 PM

Bah, wanted to get it as soon as it's released, but the timing and price prevent me from doing that.

Ah, well, soon...hopefully...

Lionclaw · 05-27-10, 11:02 AM

Ah, it seems I have the first game of the series, bought it as a impulse buy many years ago.

Might install it and try it out again.

Lieste · 05-27-10, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionclaw

Ah, it seems I have the first game of the series, bought it as a impulse buy many years ago.

Might install it and try it out again.

Which, RDOA or HTTR?

As a general note: I'd say that if the price is initially off-putting, then wait for the demo to be completed - it is being built now from the release code - and save pennies for it while you wait.

If you like it, then invest in a product that is rock solid and which should allow (I've had no CTD or major problems with gameplay in COTA - a few minor bugs reported and quickly addressed by Arjuna - albeit as corrections for BFTB).

...And if you don't like it - no harm done, and you can buy several normal titles.

Me - I'm sold already, just need to wait till I have that much not already spent several times over...

Lionclaw · 05-27-10, 02:42 PM

Maybe I misunderstood...

Well it's "Airborne Assault: Red Devils Over Arnhem" that I have.

The other two Airborne Assault titles don't seem to be available to purchase in Sweden though.

I don't have a credit card, so I'll just play AA: RDOA, and other titles.

Skybird · 05-27-10, 03:36 PM

I spend a higher price for a quality title anytime, if it is quality indeed and meets my interest and expectation. That is better than to buy two normal titles or two budget titles, and leave them behind after some weeks. But I would also wait for the inevitable first two patches or so, and general feedback. Judging from COTA, the new title will deliver.

See it as a buck-per-playing-hour ratio (bph ratio

). Ironically, those games I bought that were the most expensive, have the lowest (= best) score in this formula, while most others with smaller prices score high (= worse) here - which makes them quite expensive in my book.

This is my argument for SBP, and it is my argument for Aegean and Bulge as well.

Lionclaw · 06-15-10, 11:35 AM

Soon I'll have online payment capability.

I've been looking at Matrix Games and they seem to have some interesting games, too many almost.

I have some prior experience in these kind of games, used to play Panzer General many years ago. Quite simple to learn, fun to play.

Haven't played much of "Airborne Assault: Red Devils Over Arnhem" yet.

Other than that I have more experience in Close Combat and Achtung Panzer type games.

I've been looking at some titles.

The Operational Art Of War

War In The Pacific ( Admiral's Edition is quite deep and complex, I would probably drown starting with that one, although it looks interesting. )

Uncommon Valor ( More simple than "War In The Pacific" )

10-19-09, 07:06 PM	#20
Lieste Soundman Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 142 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Battles For The Bulge (Demo) There is a new AAR of the proposed demo posted by Arjuna over at the matrix site: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2269933 This suggests that the title is nearing release date, although it could still be several months away. It does however confirm that there will finally be a demo of the refined modern AA/CO series to supersede the RDOA one. Demo will be a four day battle with reinforcements from both sides, raising force strength from Regt/Bde to ~Division. Can be played from either side, or HtH.

10-20-09, 04:27 AM	#21
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,615 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Checked! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-21-09, 09:34 AM	#22
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Awesome, I've been waiting for this one a long time. The AA series is one of my favourite computer wargames. __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory

05-26-10, 04:59 PM	#25
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Bah, wanted to get it as soon as it's released, but the timing and price prevent me from doing that. Ah, well, soon...hopefully... __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory

05-27-10, 02:42 PM	#28
Lionclaw Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,006 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Maybe I misunderstood... Well it's "Airborne Assault: Red Devils Over Arnhem" that I have. The other two Airborne Assault titles don't seem to be available to purchase in Sweden though. I don't have a credit card, so I'll just play AA: RDOA, and other titles. Last edited by Lionclaw; 05-27-10 at 03:30 PM.

01-31-09, 07:15 AM	#16
Deamon Commodore Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 642 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	What is the scale of the possible battles ? Can I conquer the whole world ?

01-31-09, 07:59 AM	#18
Lieste Soundman Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 142 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Establishments are fixed, and cannot be ammended by the end user. This means that the 100% strength platoon/company/batallion sizes and equipment lists for each nation and type/subtype of unit are not modifiable. Strength can be set to greater or lesser than the default, but any excess equipment will be discarded if the unit routs. They are generally complete for use within the original theatre, and similarity of equipment allows some flexibility of theatre and date, but this is fairly limited. (patches tend to address the more important defecits) Most equipment is therefore early war German/Italian/Commonwealth stuff, but for the planned operation Herkales there are some KV1/KV2 companies - which make very little difference as they are so rare that you just delay them while cutting them off from their support/supply units, then let them wither... The Orbat is completely flexible though, and it is possible to combine the sub-unit building blocks into any force structure you need. I know of at least one operation set around Narvik, and one depicting Op Sealion for the COTA engine. Scenarios are usually larger than the tutorials (Regimental/Brigade, and short 36hrs-72hrs), many are delay/pursuit rather than fight to the last man affairs, but they can be Corps sized, and last for over a week. In the longer battles a major factor is deciding whether to keep bulling through with both sides in disorder and increasing exhaustion, or to regroup and rest, allowing more strength to be thrown into the fight, but at the expense of allowing enemy units to extricate themselves from out of supply pockets, to re-arm and re-supply and to dig in covering the next delay line.

05-07-10, 07:53 PM	#23
Lieste Soundman Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 142 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Bringing this one up again, as a new official video of the Game Concepts has been released at Matrix (Dave Arjuna the lead programmer narrates). 30mins/100+ MB http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm...&key=&#2461948 There will be more official 'Dave Arjuna' tutorial videos, a demo, and the release date looks pretty close, given these are the 'final' versions of the video documentation... Personally I'd skip the other non-official recent 'video AAR' though - it doesn't show the strengths of the system very well as you can't get "close enough" to see what is going on...

05-26-10, 02:53 PM	#24
Lieste Soundman Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 142 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge - released. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2477694

05-27-10, 11:02 AM	#26
Lionclaw Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,006 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Ah, it seems I have the first game of the series, bought it as a impulse buy many years ago. Might install it and try it out again.

05-27-10, 03:36 PM	#29
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,615 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I spend a higher price for a quality title anytime, if it is quality indeed and meets my interest and expectation. That is better than to buy two normal titles or two budget titles, and leave them behind after some weeks. But I would also wait for the inevitable first two patches or so, and general feedback. Judging from COTA, the new title will deliver. See it as a buck-per-playing-hour ratio (bph ratio ). Ironically, those games I bought that were the most expensive, have the lowest (= best) score in this formula, while most others with smaller prices score high (= worse) here - which makes them quite expensive in my book. This is my argument for SBP, and it is my argument for Aegean and Bulge as well. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-15-10, 11:35 AM	#30
Lionclaw Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,006 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Soon I'll have online payment capability. I've been looking at Matrix Games and they seem to have some interesting games, too many almost. I have some prior experience in these kind of games, used to play Panzer General many years ago. Quite simple to learn, fun to play. Haven't played much of "Airborne Assault: Red Devils Over Arnhem" yet. Other than that I have more experience in Close Combat and Achtung Panzer type games. I've been looking at some titles. The Operational Art Of War War In The Pacific ( Admiral's Edition is quite deep and complex, I would probably drown starting with that one, although it looks interesting. ) Uncommon Valor ( More simple than "War In The Pacific" )