IL2 1946 Boring

[STEED]

Originally Posted by joea

I will admit the silly fantasy Lerch is certainly a test for future FM stuff (Korea ie. helicopters).

This is the sort of thing they should not have been put in the add on and I read your post in full. :p

OK joea you like it good for you enjoy.

[em2nought]

Sort of funny that a flight sim is called boring on a naval forum. Haze gray and underway is boring. lol

The only thing to dislike about IL2 1946 to me is the fact that they dropped fairly user friendly safedisc and put the latest version of SecuROM on the compilation. From reading the forums, it sounds like a few paying buyers are having problems too. Guess Silent Hunter IV is going to have SecuROM too. Oh boy, here we go again maybe. lol

[joea]

Originally Posted by STEED

This is the sort of thing they should not have been put in the add on and I read your post in full. :p

OK joea you like it good for you enjoy.

Well it's Xmas so I'll just wish you a Merry one anyway, just don't treat me the way a politician or hack journalist would by picking stuff out of context OK?

Anyway, since CCIP and Konovalov are convinced I'll add one more thing, the new joystick routines are fabulous, if you like US planes (esp. USN) the yaw from firing guns has been fixed...and the shake and recoil on ALL planes seems better. The Il-10 is a beast...love the little Kawasaki 27 too.

U-boats and planes for Xmas, next year will be WWII tanks.

[woofiedog]

The Ki-27 in the 46 addon is a Great Ride. Handles well... but if hit in the fuel tanks you loose fuel Very Rapidly and it doesn't take damage to easy.
Also the Ki-21 bomber is added... although not a flyable... but a much needed aircraft to help with early war mission building.
If you into mission building though... they have added some Excellent objects... trenches, airfield equipment and much more with the 46 addon.
Plus New Maps.
There is one more addon along the way... 4.08 and this one may cover Korea. We'll find out more on this later this year.

[Tikigod]

Before running off to 1946 he needs to finish what's in 1939-1945.

Hopefully Maddox will run out of options soon and be forced to finish what he has already in game that doesn't work. (such as B-17's, B-29's, B-24 Liberators, PBY Catalina's, etc, etc) I like how he always manages to add completely new models to the game yet, never finishes the functionality of what's already there.

Also, the maps and battle environment are extremely boring. He needs to make the gameplay more like Falcon 4.0 or Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3. Otherwise, IL2 will just be a WW2 version of Lock On: Modern Air Combat. All look and feel, but, no guts.

[CCIP]

I think you're rushing to comparisons that don't quite work though. As much as I see what you're saying... Falcon 4.0 (possibly my favoirte simulator) and CFS 3 are NOT good examples of games that work (it took years before they did), as both work pretty much just by virtue of modding communities keeping them up. Maddox should be given credit for releasing a sim that has always worked out of the box and more or less delivers on its promises - but you're right about its downfalls. Certainly saying that IL-2 has a dynamic campaign is an embellishment at best. Likewise, I think expecting ALL of them to be flyable is a bit too much, and as far as adding - that's the company's prerogative, I suppose. A point against them is the lack of openness to modders who'd be eager to fix it. Otherwise certainly noone ever complained that Falcon 4.0 only had an F-16 to fly, and that it somehow makes it incomplete (which isn't to say your point is wrong, just that the comparison you make doesn't quite work in the first place...)

I think IL-2 is the best WWII flight sim out there, but far from being a perfect one. It's certainly by and far the best up-to-date commercial effort - far better than the commercial work on Falcon 4.0 or CFS 3 that you bring up - as sad as that might be given its obvious shortfalls in some parts.

I personally have better hopes for Storm of War that promises to open up to modding more.

[Konovalov]

The only thing that I will add here is this. Just imagine that Il2 never saw the light of day in the late months of 2001? I am just grateful for the many hundreds of hours of entertainment and enjoyment that I have got out of the Il2 series. Thanks Oleg and crew for the good flight sims times.

[TteFAboB]

You can fly all planes in IL2, without cockpits for the unflyable, if you edit a textfile (don't remember which) to allow you to select them in Multiplayer sessions. You can convert a SP mission into MP and play it alone anyway.

In Falcon 4 you can also easily fly any plane by renaming a file and you get to keep the F-16 panel & functionality/avionics.

IL2 looks good and flys great but I prefer WWIIOL, which looks worse and flies worse. :rotfl: Best in IL2 are the hardcore multiplayer groups who organize "virtual campaigns" but even the free-for-all (teamed) death match sessions a-la "Counter-Strike" can be incredibly fun if you're in for some low-altitude madness, especially if they let you fly the bombers and other stuff.

[Tikigod]

You are tlaking about the sims from a modding stand point. I was talking about them out of box.

Falcon 4.0 the original version had an excellent campaign engine out of box. The campagin itself isn't a mod and its the strongest campaign engine you can find for a flight sim.

Combat Flight Simulator 3 also has a strong campaign engine out of box. I can fly from England across the channel bomb Germany, Belgium, or France and fly back. This is all out of box with no mods.

Both allow me to see a progressed war where everything I bomb actually manipulates or changes the environment for the next mission. These games actually have a feel that I am paticipating in WW2 and fighting on the front lines.

Maddox games do not. Maddox has an excellent dogfighting sim, an excellent bombing sim, and excellent carrier take off and landing sim. But, having the look and feel that I am in a war is about as exciting as the front lines in LOMAC. Its just small groups of jeeps, aa guns, tanks, here and there and thats it. It doesn't give me the feeling I am in WW2 only that I am participating in small skirmishes.

Originally Posted by CCIP

I think IL-2 is the best WWII flight sim out there, but far from being a perfect one. It's certainly by and far the best up-to-date commercial effort - far better than the commercial work on Falcon 4.0 or CFS 3 that you bring up - as sad as that might be given its obvious shortfalls in some parts.

[CCIP]

Well, not quite from the modding standpoint. Sure these games have great campaigns - no doubt, Falcon would never have what it has were it not for the ambition of its designers - but the campaign came in an with a game released in unplayable state (in the case of Falcon 4.0) or a state that was at best problematic (CFS3).

I would agree that IL-2 has not been ambitious in many departments, though, especially campaigns.

Really, my hope is that SHIII (and perhaps SHIV) turn heads among sim developers - back to true dynamic campaign. IL-2's "dynamic campaign" is a joke in some sense. We've not had a true dynamic campaign in a flight sim for years, and certainly none that even approached "dynamic" in the sense that Falcon established in 1998.

That said, IL-2 will be played by the community as long as Falcon 4, I think - not for the campaign or immersion, but for its compatibility and function, especially in multiplayer. For campaign, I found that the community has worked their way back into canned campaigns and that's where I find my SP fun for this game - thankfully there's a lot of talented scenario designers out there.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Tikigod

You are tlaking about the sims from a modding stand point. I was talking about them out of box.

Falcon 4.0 the original version had an excellent campaign engine out of box. The campagin itself isn't a mod and its the strongest campaign engine you can find for a flight sim.

Combat Flight Simulator 3 also has a strong campaign engine out of box. I can fly from England across the channel bomb Germany, Belgium, or France and fly back.
This is all out of box with no mods.

Both allow me to see a progressed war where everything I bomb actually manipulates or changes the environment for the next mission. These games actually have a feel that I am paticipating in WW2 and fighting on the front lines.

Maddox games do not. Maddox has an excellent dogfighting sim, an excellent bombing sim, and excellent carrier take off and landing sim. But, as the having the look and feel that I am in a war is about as exciting as the front lines in LOMAC. Its just small groups of jeeps, aa guns, tanks, here and there and thats it. It doesn't give me the feeling I am in WW2 only that I am participating in small skirmishes.

Hmmm from what I've read the CFS3 campaign engine could have strange results, anyway I don't think one pilot should affect the course of the war as much as is shown in many dynamic engines.

The best campaigns are user-made static campaigns, IMHO. Even the least few addons for Il-2 have included some superb static campaigns. I know you can only play them once or twice, but there are sooooo many you can be kept busy for ages.

I hear what you are saying about out of the box...but the best dynamic campaign generator I've seen is DCG by Lowengrin.
http://www.lowengrin.com./news.php A bit complicated but very powerful and it has moving vehicles and a front line that can be pushed forward or back.

Lastly some hope for single missions (and the static campaigns too) some guy is working in a random genetator, can't find the link though darn it.

[Tikigod]

Well, I'm also looking at it from a reconnaissance standpoint. One of the strong features of Combat Flight Simulator 3 and Falcon 4.0 is you can develop a memory for what is out in the battlefield. You start recognizing buildings and areas that are hot spots where you can see where your forces are not holding lines. After bombing a certain area you can fly around recon for more targets or threats to your forces for upcomming missions that you create and plan from a tactical standpoint. (Instead of hitting a small area with a few obvious targets that limits any sort of tactical strategy)

IL2 dynamic campaign generators just place forces back and forth in wider predefined areas. I tried it and its still not as exciting as a larger campaign engine where you can watch troops that move in realtime over a huge area. I feel like I am actually providing CAS in Falcon and CFS3 whereas in IL2 its like playing electronic battleship. Once you complete one map you move to the next. Its just boring in my opinion.

WW2 Online is another example of an excellent battlefield environment where you can provide close air support, recon flights, and dynamically help an actual warfront.

Also objects you can attack actually function for the campaign. IL2 they just count as a statistic. You hit a bridge in Falcon 4.0 or CFS3 it actually cuts off supply and stops troop movements from reaching the front lines. In IL2 it doesn't do anything and is the reason noone attacks them in multiplayer.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Tikigod

IL2 dynamic campaign generators just place forces back and forth in wider predefined areas. I tried it and its still not as exciting as a larger campaign engine where you can watch troops that move in realtime over a huge area. I feel like I am actually providing CAS in Falcon and CFS3 whereas in IL2 its like playing electronic battleship. Once you complete one map you move to the next. Its just boring in my opinion.

Try the DCG community made campaign generator for IL2. Its fully customizable and 100% dynamic. Even the ground war is dynamic. The front line moves as tanks move around the map. If you destroy a tank in a depot behind enemy lines then it wont reach the front line. If you destroy a convoy then tanks will run out of ammo faster. If the enemy bombs your fuel supply then you wont get any missions until the fuel supply convoy arrives.
The only problem is that you need a good rig to run it on.

Community modding at its best.

[IRONxMortlock]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

...there is a game coming out with the title ''Battle of Brittian'' a different game but its made from the Devs of IL2 and I deffintly going to take a look at it as soon as the trailers come out.

HunterICX

Is that this game?

If not, could you give me a link the their homepage please?

Thank you.
________
Medical dispensaries

[Tikigod]

yes, its a game and its already out...its been out for awhile now.

http://www.gmxmedia.net/bob2/