Climate Change

If I have a thermometer on a rooftop in the middle of a city and it indicates an average of, let's say, 45° throughout a year and five years later it indicates an average temperature of 50° then I shall dismiss this because it was in the middle of a city?

Don't you go geting scientific, if you can't explain things to a satisfactory pre determined conclusion in simple everyday language then you are part of the conspiracy

[Sailor Steve]

So, what should I make of the fact that where I live it used to consistently get up over 100 degrees F for a couple of weeks every summer, and it hasn't done' that for several years now?

Should I still draw my own conclusions?

[SteamWake]

Simply put... place more temprature measuring stations in locations that hotter than the actual temprature is going to produce tempratures that are actually hotter than the actual tempratures.

The 'over time' argument doesent hold because more measuring stations are now located in 'urban' areas that were (5 years ago) undeveloped areas. Also more measuring stations have been added in those 5 years in the heat bubble areas in relation to those located in a more neutral site.

Errr.... You mean these Nazis?

No I meant Obamas secret army of gestapo like health workers

BTW did you actually read the articles you linked to??????

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

No I meant Obamas secret army of gestapo like health workers

BTW did you actually read the articles you linked to??????

Oh!!! the IRS !!! why dident you just say so

Yes I did. Its a pretty balanced article when taken as a whole puts things in doubt.

[mookiemookie]

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So, what should I make of the fact that where I live it used to consistently get up over 100 degrees F for a couple of weeks every summer, and it hasn't done' that for several years now?

Should I still draw my own conclusions?

Well, yes and no really.

You should raw conclusions as to how your local area has been affected, but just localized data can not be used to establish a general pattern. Here we had the coldest winter since 1942 and now are in the hottest winter since, well, ever in our recorded history. This fits pretty well with what scientists have predicted for the climate in this area. The theory of global warming does not actually state that it will get uniformly warmer everywhere during all times of the year, but rather that the extremes will be further apart and the average of the two will be higher.

[AVGWarhawk]

WTH did Bush do now?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So, what should I make of the fact that where I live it used to consistently get up over 100 degrees F for a couple of weeks every summer, and it hasn't done' that for several years now?

Should I still draw my own conclusions?

You should understand that local weather and global climate are two different things both regarding the dimension of space and the dimension of time.

The chnage in dispersion patterns of organisms and species also indicate a warming of climate: that warmner climate zones are spreading, and coller climate zones are shrinking. Talking of insects, birds, fishes, and certain bacterias. Yo9u see warmth-depending species emerging in areas where ten and twenty years before they would not have been able to survive. The equatorial deserts are fastly expanding, not shrinking.

Also, the oceans warm up, with all the changes to the oceanographic environment that means in salintiy, oxygen, ph index, disperison patterns of higher life forms, and by changes in the latter: reproduction cycles slowing down, making any losses even more hurtful. When I read that in the past 50% years the level of phytoplancton in all oceans dropped by an alarming 40% and that cureently the present levels shrink by 1% per year, then I know that something is gpoing on: and that is not that overfishing the oceans has something to do with it. The massve spreading of yellyfish populations in practically all oceans also indicate that the maritime environment is turning upside down. With regard to both symptoms, we talk of water temperature (too warm for plancton), and shifting ph-levels (favouring yellyfish, killing fish). Both symptoms are two of the most obvious and alarming flashlight alerts there are, I am surprised that general attention focusses so little on it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You should understand that local weather and global climate are two different things both regarding the dimension of space and the dimension of time.

The chnage in dispersion patterns of organisms and species also indicate a warming of climate: that warmner climate zones are spreading, and coller climate zones are shrinking. Talking of insects, birds, fishes, and certain bacterias. Yo9u see warmth-depending species emerging in areas where ten and twenty years before they would not have been able to survive. The equatorial deserts are fastly expanding, not shrinking.

Also, the oceans warm up, with all the changes to the oceanographic environment that means in salintiy, oxygen, ph index, disperison patterns of higher life forms, and by changes in the latter: reproduction cycles slowing down, making any losses even more hurtful. When I read that in the past 50% years the level of phytoplancton in all oceans dropped by an alarming 40% and that cureently the present levels shrink by 1% per year, then I know that something is gpoing on: and that is not that overfishing the oceans has something to do with it. The massve spreading of yellyfish populations in practically all oceans also indicate that the maritime environment is turning upside down. With regard to both symptoms, we talk of water temperature (too warm for plancton), and shifting ph-levels (favouring yellyfish, killing fish). Both symptoms are two of the most obvious and alarming flashlight alerts there are, I am surprised that general attention focusses so little on it.

Global warming/global climate change? Yes. Enough proof in my own backyard. This is all a man made issue? To some extent. I believe there are other contributing factors that we can not examine. Do we really know what made the dinosaurs extinct?

[CaptainHaplo]

Of course its a man made issue - because there is more of mankind....

Its either "man made" in the respect that humans impact the environment - so more humans means more impact....

OR

Its "man made" up because its all a big hoax.

After reading the logs of the IT guy that had to work with the raw data - which shows that alot of the temps used came from "unknown" and "unlocated" stations when it comes to "historical" data - I take it as a load of bull..

First it was global cooling - then global warming - now some of the experts are worried about global cooling again.

Its called a cycle. We don't have the undisputed data that tells us what the cycle extremes have been - but we do know that the planet has gone through some major extremes.

The real question isn't the climate - the problem is overpopulation and a lack of resources. Worrying about the climate at this point is alot like saying "there is this crack that might be in the foundation of my house, I wonder if I need to call a repair company" - all while your house is on fire.

Deal with the most pressing problems first....

[AVGWarhawk]

Capthaplo, man does contribute but I'm on the fence if it is all entirely mans fault. There are something that we can not detect as happening or has happened in the past to this mud ball we call earth. Things totally unrelated to what man has done.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You should understand that local weather and global climate are two different things both regarding the dimension of space and the dimension of time.

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. My comment was addressed directly to those on the 'is' side who seem to think that when they get simplistic and rude it's cool, but if someone else does it they deserve a smackdown:

Imagine what we could do if the brainpower expended on coming up with ways to ignore facts, data and reality was actually used for something productive.

I'm sorry Mark, but I think that comment qualifies as jackassery at it's finest.

Well, all I know is that two years ago our house maintained a cool 67 degrees, and now it never drops below 75. Draw your own conclusions

The comment my comment was specifically aimed at, which is why I asked if I should draw my own conclusions now.

If the temperature monitoring stations have been there for years then their early readings can be compared to their current readings, right? So if their current average readings are higher than those of the earlier days why shouldn't that be a valid observation?

A valid observation for that part of the city, yes. So if where I live it's cooler than it has been in years?

Don't you go geting scientific, if you can't explain things to a satisfactory pre determined conclusion in simple everyday language then you are part of the conspiracy

So when someone agrees with you it's cool to be sarcastic to the ones who disagree? You don't make those comments when someone else posts minor facts from the other side.

Is there a problem? Sure. Should something be done? Sure. Should that something involve massive government spending and revolutionizing the way we live? Possibly, but that absolutely requires that everyone be honest and apolitical about it, and so far no one has done that.

Is mockery and derision warranted when discussing it? Never.

[CaptainHaplo]

Oh I agree we contribute. Mathematically we are a variable in the big equation. I don't know that I have ever said man doesn't affect the environment. If I have I communicated my meaning badly. Is all global warming "bunk"? No - it can't be - because for example - building cities creates urban warming.

What I am saying is this.

#1 - the mass hysteria is an invention of man
#2 - the changes we see are cyclical
#3 - man - while having an impact - is not the "cause" nor the solution to the "problem"
#4 - its not actually a problem for the earth - see #2
#5 - the mass hysteria is created in an attempt to modify societal behavior, not "save mother earth"

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Of course its a man made issue - because there is more of mankind....

Its either "man made" in the respect that humans impact the environment - so more humans means more impact....

OR

Its "man made" up because its all a big hoax.

After reading the logs of the IT guy that had to work with the raw data - which shows that alot of the temps used came from "unknown" and "unlocated" stations when it comes to "historical" data - I take it as a load of bull..

First it was global cooling - then global warming - now some of the experts are worried about global cooling again.

Its called a cycle. We don't have the undisputed data that tells us what the cycle extremes have been - but we do know that the planet has gone through some major extremes.

The real question isn't the climate - the problem is overpopulation and a lack of resources. Worrying about the climate at this point is alot like saying "there is this crack that might be in the foundation of my house, I wonder if I need to call a repair company" - all while your house is on fire.

Deal with the most pressing problems first....

Global cooling was never big in scientific literature, but was rather blown out of proportion by alarmist media. For your science information go to scientific sources.