Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine

[mapuc]

According to a Swedish Commentator it could very well end with a war between Ukraine and Russia.

( I take all these commentators with a ton of salt)

Markus

[Betonov]

the Russians will probably bribe the opposition leaders after the revolution and nothing will change.

[Hungry-Bear]

end with a war between Ukraine and Russia

Russia does not need war - simply close the oil, gas and money pipelines.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Hungry-Bear

end with a war between Ukraine and Russia

Russia does not need war - simply close the oil, gas and money pipelines.

This is true, and I suspect that this is a threat that Russia will use with whoever takes over from Yanukovich if they try to militarily drift towards NATO and the EU. However, there is still a risk that if a Ukrainian civil war does develop then Russia will intervene in either a direct or non-direct fashion (there are rumours and reports that they are already intervening in a non-direct fashion, likewise people suggesting the same of the EU and US).

It's a very liquid situation at the moment, certainly Yanukovich's power is dramatically on the wane, but it's whether he and his supporters will fade away or decide to fight that is the question, and furthermore, what will the fascists of the Ukraine do now? Will they push for more power? Or will the new government of the Ukraine turn on them?

[Hungry-Bear]

Russia will have to intervene by force only when "Western Ukraine" attacks to the eastern Ukraine (in this case must to intervene). But in this case will be labeled as aggressors rebels with all the international consequences for them - which they know. If you want "freedom", then he must sacrifice the east+south.
Anyway, now they will have enough to worry about with national bankruptcy.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Hungry-Bear

Russia will have to intervene by force only when "Western Ukraine" attacks to the eastern Ukraine (in this case must to intervene). But in this case will be labeled as aggressors rebels with all the international consequences for them - which they know. If you want "freedom", then he must sacrifice the east+south.
Anyway, now they will have enough to worry about with national bankruptcy.

Indeed, that's going to be the biggest crisis once the dust settles from all this, and if West Ukraine cuts itself off from the East and South then it loses a) the naval base at Sevastapol, the existence of which keeps Russia supplying gas, and b) the coal fields of the east, a good economic resource.

Which leaves it with...what? Chernobyl?

[Tango589]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Which leaves it with...what? Chernobyl?

You can't beat a tourist hot-spot to keep raking in the hryvnias'.

[Jimbuna]

Ukraine has now issued an arrest warrant for Yanukovych on the grounds of 'Mass murder of peaceful citizens'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26320004

[Oberon]

The new Ukraine authorities have now been recognized by the EU, the US and the UNO, said the acting president and acting PM, Aleksandr Turchinov, at the parliamentary meeting of the Ukrainian parliament (Verkhovna Rada).

The Ukrainian state treasury is empty and the country is nearly bankrupt, said Arseny Yatsenyuk, leader of the Batkivshchina (Fatherland) Party during the parliamentary session.
‘We have to ask financial help from the International Monetary Fund,” added Yatsenyuk, commenting that Ukraine has never seen a financial catastrophe on this scale in its history.

The UK is ready to provide support to Ukraine through schemes set up by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and EU, UK Finance Minister George Osborne said.
“A lot of this [support] will take the form of loans and the like, but there will be good investments in the economy of Ukraine," said Osborne.

[Alex]

Yes we all must fight the communists and the Russians !
They are all evil.
But capitalism must not be defeated.
I don't know why, but I predict the west won't support Ukrainian militants for much more time.

Poor Aleksandr Muzychko.

[Skybird]

First bill has been put on the table: 35 billion for the first credit tranche.

As we have learned from the state credit mess in Europe in the past years, that bill won't be the last. Considering the fiscal state of things in the Ukraine, its just the first of many bills.

And how to prevent oligarchs taking their share of that money, has not been explained so far.

I only hope that Tymochenko does not become president. She has not been that much different and was much too close to said oligarchs in the past. She should not play any role in Ukrainian affairs, I think.

By the few occasion Klitschko commented on politics in German TV, I do not see any meaningful greatness or remarkable political qualification in him to make a claim for the presidency. The only thing he has always said is that "Europe must help the Ukrainian people". That is a bit thin, and in refusal of that he does not speak for all Ukrainians, not by a huge margin, I'd say. So, I respect the boxer and sportsman in him, absolutely. But the politician leaves me completely unimpressed. And the mere desire by him to become a politician, on a principal level speaks against him. I deeply mistrust people wanting to become politicians by their own desire.

[Skybird]

Medwedew meanwhile said that Russia will respect legally binding contracts with the Ukraine. He was referring to the delivery of gas. But he also said that what happens after those contracts have run out, is a completely different thing. Here hge was referring to the fact that the treaties for Russian deliveries and pricing always have been negioated by Russaia for a limited time scale only, not with a long perspective.

In other words: already next winter the EU could have tremendous if not impossible to solve problems with supplying the energy needed to prevent Ukrainian households freezing over. And since Europe depends on massive gas imports from Russia, one can imagine that issue to become a real - well, if not hot than a very interesting situation. If Russia would decide to continue with gas deliveries to the Ukraine, then it would ask a price from both the Ukraine and the EU for that. Not to mention that low prices for the Ukraine like currently, are off the table now.

[Mr Quatro]

Here's a bit of news that correlates with the news of the new Ukraine freedom:

Fresh from a $19-billion (14-billion-euro) takeover by Facebook, mobile messaging service WhatsApp said Monday it will launch free voice calls by mid-year.

One of the two owners of WhatsApp, CEO Jan Koum just sold his company to Facebook for 19 billion dollars, was born in the Ukraine and raised by his mother on food stamps in the San Francisco area.

http://business.time.com/2014/02/20/...-ceo-jan-koum/

According to a profile by Forbes, Koum, 38, was born and raised near Kiev, Ukraine during the Soviet era. He lived as an only child in a house that didn’t have hot water. He moved to Mountain View, California as a teenager with his mother, and lived off food stamps for a time. He taught himself computer programming and earned a job as an infrastructure engineer at Yahoo in the late 1990s. After working at Yahoo for several years he decided to launch a messaging app through which people could send text messages via the Internet instead of through cellular SMS texting.

He has refused to sell his company to Facebook for years and even was denied a job working for Facebook years ago. He taught himself computer code and came up with WhatsApp to work on phones with 480 million subscriptions @ $0.99 each plus adding one million more everyday.

I bet he decided to sell based on this very real conflict in his home country of the Ukraine.

Some of those widows of the men that were killed fighting for freedom are going get taken care of ... I betcha

[Phyrrus]

Originally Posted by Oberon

[The UK is ready to provide support to Ukraine through schemes set up by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and EU, UK Finance Minister George Osborne said.
“A lot of this [support] will take the form of loans and the like, but there will be good investments in the economy of Ukraine," said Osborne.

---

First bill has been put on the table: 35 billion for the first credit tranche.

As we have learned from the state credit mess in Europe in the past years, that bill won't be the last. Considering the fiscal state of things in the Ukraine, its just the first of many bills.

End of game. This was the only thing I was afraid of. Game over. They have been bought, all those deaths for nothing... its terrifying. Really, really terrifying and demoralizing. Here we go again: debt, debt, debt for the IMF.
I really cannot understand, why people cannot comprehend where this all leads them? ist there enough examples?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

I bet he decided to sell based on this very real conflict in his home country of the Ukraine.

Some of those widows of the men that were killed fighting for freedom are going get taken care of ... I betcha

That would be a fantastic gesture