SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997 
041223, 01:49 AM  #1 
Nub
Join Date: Jan 2020
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Angle of bow does not want to work
Hi guys! I purchased Wolfpack back in version 0.14. Then there was a big break in the game (job change, etc.). And I was happy to discover how much the developers have done. But it was also a big disappointment that the usual divisions on the periscope are no longer relevant!
For this reason, none of the known formulas work for me, as well as the RAOBF ring that was downloaded from this forum. Moreover, thinking that I completely forgot how to play, I downloaded the solution solver again from this forum (thanks a lot for your work, guys!). But comparing with the ingame tables, I came across the fact that these devices, while continuing to work in accordance with the mathematical formulas embedded in them ... Do not work in the game! For example, a ship 150 meters long, crane height 28 (training mission, you all know this tanker). It takes 3 risks, which is 3733 meters according to the instrument, but according to the tables this is not so. And in general, I see it at 90 degrees, but in the solution solver it should take almost 17 lines, and in the periscope it is visible about 11, and this is on a precisely defined visually (and then on the map marks, because this is a training mode). It’s a shame that the dependence seems to be nonlinear, I don’t know what to do with it, in a real game it’s not always possible to ideally stand at 90 degrees, and at other angles the error walks in all directions ((( A formula like "The length of the ship according to the guide * the apparent height in the risks / the height of the mast according to the guide = the number of notches at supposedly 90 degrees." then the second action is "apparent length in marks * 90 / result of the first calculation" Allegedly, this will give the angle of the bow. As you can imagine, if that were the case, I wouldn't be posting here. The sine formula also works when compared to RAOBF, the formula I gave above... But again, it doesn't work in the game. However, the noob seems to be me here, as the rest of the players quite obviously successfully calculate torpedoes and send them to the target with a success rate of at least 80%. I ask for any possible help. I'll provide screenshots of course. 
041223, 02:45 AM  #2 
Gefallen Engel U666

welcome back!
Alvarez!
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"Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human stupidity; And I'm not too sure about the Universe" 
041223, 07:59 PM  #3 
中国水兵
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 276
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This is why I'm generally a humble diveofficer. Doing all that arithmatic on the fly is not easy. I confess I'm struggling to follow what you're stating here, as I thought AoB was always a matter of judgement and observation, rather than someone that you could measure or calculate?

041223, 10:07 PM  #4 
The Old Man
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New Orleans, LA.
Posts: 1,352
Downloads: 470
Uploads: 10

Hello, I'm the creator of the solution solver program. I've not played Wolf Pack in ages, but i can help answer any questions about the program itself.
Only thing i can think of is to make sure make sure you have the correct zoom level selected at the top of the tool. It's been 4 years since i launched the game, i don't know whats changed about it, so the tool may no longer be useful if they've mucked with the ingame periscope zoom levels. Last edited by gutted; 041223 at 10:16 PM. 
041223, 11:25 PM  #5 
Gefallen Engel U666

Welcome back!
gutted! thanks for popping in after a few years to help out.
__________________
"Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human stupidity; And I'm not too sure about the Universe" 
041323, 05:12 AM  #6  
Nub
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 3
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Quote:
In other words, we need to convert radians to degrees. The periscope uses a scale in degrees with divisions of 1 degree horizontally and 1/16 degrees vertically. From here you can deduce a little mathematics. Without going into details, I found and checked the information that the range is calculated according to the formula "Apparent height / height in the risks of 1/16 degrees * 0.9168". For a periscope with an x6 approximation, you need to multiply the result by 4. But the range can not be considered, since the current version of the game has tables that are completely sufficient for a successful determination. AoB can really be measured by eye, which after some experience is really not that difficult, and if you have a lot of time, then there is no problem in this. In addition, there are historical reference books with examples of ships from different angles, which actually led me to very accurate results. However, I am the kind of person who wants accuracy, because with the help of RAOBF we could get it earlier. Now this is impossible, or due to a number of mathematical operations it is completely irrelevant  it can be calculated faster on a calculator, since we do not move from one device to another) So  the AoB formula in the new realities looks like this: arcsin(apparent length / (apparent height/16) * actual height / actual length) The arcsine is easily calculated using a calculator or tables if we want more historicity. The actual height and length of the target is taken from the directory and is calculated once. the height that can be raised is the only difficulty  since the number of units of measurement must be divided by 16, since the vertical scale is 1/16 of a degree. In the end, you can make a form in excel, if the goal is to quickly calculate. But it seems to me, I am almost sure of this, that the difficulty of such a calculation in my head was even made on purpose in order to keep the navigator, engine engineer, acoustics, etc. busy with work. For this can be calculated on the map, bearing the ship at regular intervals, and then, having learned its real course, find the necessary AoB on the attack disk. Yes, this is only for team play, but it seems to me that it will work, and there will be less calculations. Quote:
as an excel solution for AoB, I can give a formula that exactly works. =DEG(ASIN(apparent length / (apparent height / 16) * actual height / actual length)) As I wrote earlier, we are forced to divide the value of the apparent height by 16, since the vertical scale is expressed in 1/16 degrees, and each division of this scale is 10. In other words, 3 divisions is 30, and to solve the apparent height, you need 30 / 16 Well, as for the range, I already answered above  the dependence of radians (as before) and degrees is linear, so the fix would not take much time and I would be very happy if a new version of Solution Solver was released, as it is very convenient! 

041423, 09:48 PM  #7 
The Old Man
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New Orleans, LA.
Posts: 1,352
Downloads: 470
Uploads: 10

I looked into your issue by launching the game for the first time in 4 years, and it appears they changed the periscope. The periscope solver tool would need to be completely redesigned. Both in terms of graphics and calculation. My first thought would be to keep the current implementation intact, but to add a wolfpack toggle at the bottom to swap it to a wolfpack specific layout.
It's not high on my priority list. So no ETA. 
041523, 04:36 AM  #8 
Watch
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 21
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Someone put a lot of effort to make a guide for it:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=2553649456 
042123, 06:50 AM  #9 
Silent Hunter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: standing watch...
Posts: 3,778
Downloads: 343
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Hi, if you are trying to calculate RANGE, this should help. The periscope was modified last year to make calculating range onthefly easier.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...4&postcount=21
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042123, 10:57 AM  #10 
Gefallen Engel U666

Welcome back!
Bilge Rat! on the surface after a 6mos. 'silent
run'!
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"Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human stupidity; And I'm not too sure about the Universe" 
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