US Air Force grounds combat planes

[vienna]

The news here in Los Angeles is abuzz about the Blue Angels having to cancel their appearance at the Miramar Air Base Annual Air Show, also blamed on the sequester. The maddening part of all this is not necessarily the sequester; it's where the cuts are made to bring down the costs. Much like the civilian corporate world, the economies are more often taken at the bottom of the spending "food chain" than at the top. I am sure there are some very extravagant and/or wasteful projects, programs, and perks that could have been done away with or scaled back to meet the sequester goals. But doing so would only point out the high degree of waste in all facets of the government, and, in particular the military. it would also bring into question not only the absolute need for these money wasters, but, also the decision making abilities of the persons responsible...

There is also the P.R. aspect of the cuts. In all the affected areas of the government, those in charge trot out the "you're killing the puppies" sort of heart tuggers. Is your education budget being cut? Don't scale back exhorbinant salaries, programs, or perks. Trot out the poor inner city elemetary school students whose lunch programs you are "forced" to cut. Is your welfare budget being cut? Don't slim down your operations and look at the upper area of your staffing. Trot uot the poor wlfare moms and kids you are "forced" to cut. Is you defense budget bieng cut? Don't give a merciful death to those projects that either will never see the light of day, be obsolete if you do finish them, or have no real role in modern, technological warfare; don't cut back on the perks and privileges of the brass and the bloated over-staffing at the Pentagon. Just trot out how the kiddies are going to be deprived of a military air circus and how you are "forced" to ground combat planes that aren't really, in the full scale of matters, all that vital anyway. What the entire government need is a full, top to bottom audit of what is being spent and what we are really getting for our money. This applies both to the "touchie-feely, I'm OK You're Ok" social programs and the "what's good for General Motors is good for the USA" programs that really are litte more than "corporate welfare". ..

<O>

[Buddahaid]

Your a comedian right? Right?

Anyway, what would we do with all the empty buildings?

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by vienna

The news here in Los Angeles is abuzz about the Blue Angels having to cancel their appearance at the Miramar Air Base Annual Air Show, also blamed on the sequester. The maddening part of all this is not necessarily the sequester; it's where the cuts are made to bring down the costs. Much like the civilian corporate world, the economies are more often taken at the bottom of the spending "food chain" than at the top. I am sure there are some very extravagant and/or wasteful projects, programs, and perks that could have been done away with or scaled back to meet the sequester goals. But doing so would only point out the high degree of waste in all facets of the government, and, in particular the military. it would also bring into question not only the absolute need for these money wasters, but, also the decision making abilities of the persons responsible...

There is also the P.R. aspect of the cuts. In all the affected areas of the government, those in charge trot out the "you're killing the puppies" sort of heart tuggers. Is your education budget being cut? Don't scale back exhorbinant salaries, programs, or perks. Trot out the poor inner city elemetary school students whose lunch programs you are "forced" to cut. Is your welfare budget being cut? Don't slim down your operations and look at the upper area of your staffing. Trot uot the poor wlfare moms and kids you are "forced" to cut. Is you defense budget bieng cut? Don't give a merciful death to those projects that either will never see the light of day, be obsolete if you do finish them, or have no real role in modern, technological warfare; don't cut back on the perks and privileges of the brass and the bloated over-staffing at the Pentagon. Just trot out how the kiddies are going to be deprived of a military air circus and how you are "forced" to ground combat planes that aren't really, in the full scale of matters, all that vital anyway. What the entire government need is a full, top to bottom audit of what is being spent and what we are really getting for our money. This applies both to the "touchie-feely, I'm OK You're Ok" social programs and the "what's good for General Motors is good for the USA" programs that really are litte more than "corporate welfare". ..

<O>

Case in point: The f-35 program. One of the biggest money vacuums in the D.O.D's budget to date. The f-35 program has not only doubled in cost from its previous baseline but its also been delayed by 7 years. Yet its still a priority to spend all this money on an unnecessary and expensive do-it-all "stealth" fighter-bomber that isn't even that good. Its much like the F-22: when it comes down to it, its completely unnecessary and impossible to sustain monetarily.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The Civil Air Patrol is a more powerful air force than most countries...

... like Britain...

I'm in the Civil Air Patrol.

They just have all civvie-types.

No combat aircraft for us....

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

DPRK again? I just don't believe it. Been to the ROK twice, been on the "OMG were gonna go to war with teh north!!!!one111" as well. I will be VERY surprised if anything actually happens. Honestly I used to follow any and all news about Korea with keen interest several years ago, now i don't even bother to read the headline articles, no matter what page of the news they make. Seems like it's always the same ole crap, different day, only thing that's changed is who's writing the headlines trying to make their ratings.

That is probably true thing is if they do attack we have no choice but to fight in this case.The situation between North and South Korea is a relic of the Cold War that we still must deal with.At the time of the Korean War it was to all parties benefit that the war ended the way it did.Today it is costly pain in the ass.

Even if they never go to war we will be stuck spending a lot of manpower and money having troops and bases in the region.I wonder sometimes why they do not just go ahead and solve the problem.I think in the long term it might actually be more cost effective cold as that may sound.

[Buddahaid]

It's pretty sad actually. Maybe it's a last gasp?

[Spoon 11th]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Still, even with a third of it grounded, it's still more powerful than most nations on the planet.

Just one aircraft carrier with it's airfleet and munitions is more than probably 80% of the worlds nations have.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

That is probably true thing is if they do attack we have no choice but to fight in this case.The situation between North and South Korea is a relic of the Cold War that we still must deal with.At the time of the Korean War it was to all parties benefit that the war ended the way it did.Today it is costly pain in the ass.

Even if they never go to war we will be stuck spending a lot of manpower and money having troops and bases in the region.I wonder sometimes why they do not just go ahead and solve the problem.I think in the long term it might actually be more cost effective cold as that may sound.

My thoughts have been exactly that for while now. I think it's time for the DPRK to crap or get off the pot so we can pack up Osan AB, and Kunsan AB, and send all those assets along with the myraid WRM warehouses dotting some COB bases back to the states, or sell the stuff off to the ROK's.

So yeah, I do think, Lets have this already and be done with it. In the long term, think of all the money we'd save, and no more would we have to send anyone to sit in the stinking land of the not quite right on an annual basis.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

So yeah, I do think, Lets have this already and be done with it. In the long term, think of all the money we'd save, and no more would we have to send anyone to sit in the stinking land of the not quite right on an annual basis.

I'm not so sure anyone would want to really defeat the North. After a military victory the South and the US would be responsible for the whole population of the North at least for some time. That'll be expensive. South Korea also would have a lot of problems to keep the pretty much all the people from the North from moving to the South where they could live in much better conditions. that would make the German reunification look like a birthday party.
South Korea really can't have a interest in being reunited with it's completely run down northern neighbour.

[Ducimus]

IMO, post war reunification is a Korean matter. Not an American one. At least half, if not most of, the Korean's don't want us in their country anyway. No US serviceman wants us to be there either.

And again, the USAF has a ton of assets on that stinking spit of land. Korea, is money pit where who knows how many millions are dumped into it every year.

[Platapus]

This reminds me of what happened in Virginia (both North and South) a bunch of years ago

The voters decided to cut the funding for the DMV. The governor came up with a good plan.

He cut the hours that the DMV was open and when it was open, he cut the number of stations that would be open. The result - much longer wait times -- citizens inconvenienced.

The next time the budget came up for review, the DMV got their funding back. Now we have short wait times.

When you run an organization and a budget cut is foisted on you, the smart thing is to cut spending in those areas that will directly affect the public the most.

As previously posted. When the citizens get pissed enough to cut the bloated school budget, what gets cut?

1. The invisible multiple layers of bureaucracy?
2. School supplies for the younglings?

If the school system were truly interested in cutting spending, option 1 is the correct answer. If the school system is interested in getting more money, option is the smart option.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

IMO, post war reunification is a Korean matter. Not an American one. At least half, if not most of, the Korean's don't want us in their country anyway. No US serviceman wants us to be there either.

And again, the USAF has a ton of assets on that stinking spit of land. Korea, is money pit where who knows how many millions are dumped into it every year.

Militarily, yes, financially, it's a bit more difficult.
With the markets so interlinked as they are, what starts in one area, soon spreads around the globe and causes problems for everyone. So a market crisis in Korea would then affect China, then Japan, then America, then Europe (possibly not in that order), plus there will be a big competition between China and the US to rebuild North Korea, with a lot of quite profitable construction jobs, although how South Korea would be able to afford the sheer amount of work that would be needed is another matter entirely. So, while you could save money on overseas bases, whether you'd be able to keep out of the trouble there is another matter entirely.

[HW3]

The various government departments keep screaming that their budgets were cut, B.S. The only cutting that was done was to the planned increase in their budgets for this year, and that was only a 2% reduction. Obama issued orders to the various department heads to make the "cuts" highly visible to the public. So like good little minions, they are. After all, who are we, the taxpayers, to tell Obama and his minions how to spend our money?