WiTP:AE - Guadalcanal. Egan(J) v CCIP(A). BANZAI!

[Egan]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Just got around to reading this. I am surprised CCIP won after the disaster with his carriers.

Well, this is mainly because he took Lunga and I never took Moresby. For those of you who don't play the game I should point out an interesting fact about the point system: Bases will be worth different totals depending on who holds them. Eg: I get more points for holding Moresby than George does for holding it. In fact, I'm not sure, but I think even if I hadn't lost Lunga I would still have needed to take Moresby to win. I think it's supposed to reflect real world strategic goals or something.

Had the game lasted longer it might (would) have been different but, well, thems the breaks.

[TorpX]

Yes, I can see why Mo is important.

I was wondering if the IJA takes a base, but then is starved, or abandons the base, who gets what then? When I play sometimes bases just "flip" to Allied control. It seems odd.

[Egan]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Yes, I can see why Mo is important.

I was wondering if the IJA takes a base, but then is starved, or abandons the base, who gets what then? When I play sometimes bases just "flip" to Allied control. It seems odd.

The owner retains the base until the enemy takes it, as far as I know, even if it is abandoned. As far as I'm aware, bases only flip when they are in close proximity to a base held by the enemy and are very small. You see this most often in small atolls in the pacific, or some of the tiny dot hexes in the Solomons. I don't believe you would see Oosthaven flip, for example, if it was empty and you held Batavia. It's also somewhat random, in my experience.

[TorpX]

Yes, they were small. Wau in NG, and one on Java. No big deal.

In my game I have big problems with supply in China. There are "logistical swamps" that do not get supplies. No amount of fussing will remedy this. I'm wondering if my install is messed up, or is this a known issue?

[Egan]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Yes, they were small. Wau in NG, and one on Java. No big deal.

In my game I have big problems with supply in China. There are "logistical swamps" that do not get supplies. No amount of fussing will remedy this. I'm wondering if my install is messed up, or is this a known issue?

Don't remember it being a problem in the past. well, aside from the usual utterly sucky supply situation in China. Once you lose that link to Burma and the allied supply it gets bad quickly. The sheer number of mouths to feed, the lousy supply network, the tiny amount of supplies that are created...it all adds up quickly.

Is it something new, do you think, or is it something you might only have noticed now you're looking? I know from experience how easy it is to over look something in that theater just because of everything else going on elsewhere, and the sheer hideousness of the Chinese situation.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Egan

Don't remember it being a problem in the past. well, aside from the usual utterly sucky supply situation in China. Once you lose that link to Burma and the allied supply it gets bad quickly. The sheer number of mouths to feed, the lousy supply network, the tiny amount of supplies that are created...it all adds up quickly.

Is it something new, do you think, or is it something you might only have noticed now you're looking? I know from experience how easy it is to over look something in that theater just because of everything else going on elsewhere, and the sheer hideousness of the Chinese situation.

Sorry I didn't get back to this earlier.

I can't say for sure if it is something that existed from the start. When I started the game, I was rather overwhelmed and China (and logistics generally) didn't get my full attention. I suspect, that things were goofed up at the start, but only became apparent as the starting stockpiles were consumed.

I've been working around the problem for quite a while now. Most places it doesn't seem to have a big effect, but China in another matter. Some places in Australia were messed up, but seem ok now. For example, I had been sending xAKL's into some small bases like Derby, just so they had a 1,000 or so supply as there is no RR communication to the north coast. I noticed that the base had about 100 supply before and after a xAKL unloaded 1,000 or 1,700 supply, it still showed only 106 supply the next day. Of course, there is no rational way to have this rate of consuption. These were isolated bases, with tiny base forces. I kept shoveling in the supplies to see what would happen. Later, thousands of supply just "showed up" there. The same thing happened at Cairns, where I wanted to build up 20,000 for my B-17 group. The supplies seem to disappear, and only after much extra shipping did I get a good stockpile there. The game seems to lose track of certain things. Maybe my quartermasters are selling it all on the black market.

With regard to China, I never did lose control of Rangoon. I can't tell how much goes from Rangoon into China, but it doesn't seem like much. Supply levels in Rangoon don't go down very fast.

Remember that a base will try and not release supply onwards to the logistics net until it has 3 times it's needed supply. This is true even if you have set the draw values to a higher level.

I thought about this and turned off my stockpile at Chungking, and some others. I had about 25,000 sup. there. Next day 10,000 less. Levels went up about 3,500 at Canton, 1,500 at Anyang. I'm not sure where the rest of it went. Part of the problem, I think, is it is very hard to know where it is going. Apparently, it can move in a single day, and is not "on the road".

The locations which seem to be the worst are:
Yenan, Kukong, Paotow, and Nanyang.

Kukong is especially odd, as there is a major rail line to Changsha which has a relatively good supply level. Any units I move there will gradually use up their supply, then start to wither. After I move them out, they get supply again. It makes no sense.

Something else, that bugs me is that in a big stack, some units get full (or even more) supply, while others may get only a little. HQ units always seem to be fully supplied (if there is any), combat units come next, base forces and construction units seem to have the lowest priority.

[Egan]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Sorry I didn't get back to this earlier.

I can't say for sure if it is something that existed from the start. When I started the game, I was rather overwhelmed and China (and logistics generally) didn't get my full attention. I suspect, that things were goofed up at the start, but only became apparent as the starting stockpiles were consumed.

I've been working around the problem for quite a while now. Most places it doesn't seem to have a big effect, but China in another matter. Some places in Australia were messed up, but seem ok now. For example, I had been sending xAKL's into some small bases like Derby, just so they had a 1,000 or so supply as there is no RR communication to the north coast. I noticed that the base had about 100 supply before and after a xAKL unloaded 1,000 or 1,700 supply, it still showed only 106 supply the next day. Of course, there is no rational way to have this rate of consuption. These were isolated bases, with tiny base forces. I kept shoveling in the supplies to see what would happen. Later, thousands of supply just "showed up" there. The same thing happened at Cairns, where I wanted to build up 20,000 for my B-17 group. The supplies seem to disappear, and only after much extra shipping did I get a good stockpile there. The game seems to lose track of certain things. Maybe my quartermasters are selling it all on the black market.

With regard to China, I never did lose control of Rangoon. I can't tell how much goes from Rangoon into China, but it doesn't seem like much. Supply levels in Rangoon don't go down very fast.

I thought about this and turned off my stockpile at Chungking, and some others. I had about 25,000 sup. there. Next day 10,000 less. Levels went up about 3,500 at Canton, 1,500 at Anyang. I'm not sure where the rest of it went. Part of the problem, I think, is it is very hard to know where it is going. Apparently, it can move in a single day, and is not "on the road".

The locations which seem to be the worst are:
Yenan, Kukong, Paotow, and Nanyang.

Kukong is especially odd, as there is a major rail line to Changsha which has a relatively good supply level. Any units I move there will gradually use up their supply, then start to wither. After I move them out, they get supply again. It makes no sense.

Something else, that bugs me is that in a big stack, some units get full (or even more) supply, while others may get only a little. HQ units always seem to be fully supplied (if there is any), combat units come next, base forces and construction units seem to have the lowest priority.

I'm thinking about starting a slow paced Allied GC against the AI in the next few days. I'll keep a look out for supply strangeness in China. It'll be my first time out with the new patch. I'm going to be using one of the Modified scen 1 files the DaBigBabes modders released that has some changes to AAA, ASW and the dreaded late war super-Es and nothing else.

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by TorpX

In my game I have big problems with supply in China. There are "logistical swamps" that do not get supplies. No amount of fussing will remedy this.

I'm having the same problem in a Guadalcanal-scenario, with Townsville and Charters Towers. There's railroad to bring in the supply and there's ample supply down south in Sydney and Brisbane, but I'm still looking at a red supply situation all the time. No amount of tweaking supply draw values, ticking and unticking the "stockpile" box etc. has helped. I finally had to start bringing in supplies by sea because these two bases happen to be my most important 4E bomber bases in the theater.

[Egan]

Originally Posted by Fincuan

I'm having the same problem in a Guadalcanal-scenario, with Townsville and Charters Towers. There's railroad to bring in the supply and there's ample supply down south in Sydney and Brisbane, but I'm still looking at a red supply situation all the time. No amount of tweaking supply draw values, ticking and unticking the "stockpile" box etc. has helped. I finally had to start bringing in supplies by sea because these two bases happen to be my most important 4E bomber bases in the theater.

Shipping by sea is the best, most reliable option for huge parts of Oz, even the relatively built up East coast. Another thing to check is how many places you have set to draw extra supply too. Remember that a base will try and not release supply onwards to the logistics net until it has 3 times it's needed supply. This is true even if you have set the draw values to a higher level. If a base says it needs 1500 it will try and not release any until it reaches 4500, but if you have set that base to draw 5000 supply it will try to hold on and not release until it has 15000. Stockpile will obviously stop releasing any supplies onwards.

Check and make sure that you haven't tweaked the values of some smaller, less important base along the route from Sydney/Brisbane northwards. If you have, set it back to normal. You simply don't get enough supply in this scenario (on either side) to keep all bases out of the red. It shouldn't matter very much for most of them because all those cans of Fosters are needed elsewhere. Another tip is to move out any ships, squadrons or army units in those bases and move them somewhere else. The amount of supply those bases need will drop by quite an amazing amount and supply will no longer be built up. This tip is one that I completely over looked for a long, long time in my full campaign. It's so obvious too.

Of course, it could simply be you don't have enough supply full stop. Sydney only creates 1000 points of supply a day, after all, and I don't remember getting any of those special coastal convoys in the smaller scenarios.

Once you get enough up to Townsville, get it moving to Charter towers by pulsing it by manipulating the supply draw function of both bases. Basically your telling the supply net 'Don't need any more here so send it there'. Doesn't always work but it should slowly get things working.

Above all, don't worry about keeping every base in the black. It ain't gonna happen - not in this scenario!