Japanese Tsunami

[Reece]

Originally Posted by tater

Had not seen this one. Wow.

Everytime I see another video I am dumbfounded!! It must have been so horrifying for so many, and I still have to wonder how they are going to clean up this huge mess!!

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Reece

Everytime I see another video I am dumbfounded!! It must have been so horrifying for so many, and I still have to wonder how they are going to clean up this huge mess!!

I imagine the same way they picked up the pieces after WWII. Slowly and painfully over time with the certain knowledge that Mother Nature could knock it all down again at a moments notice.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

I imagine the same way they picked up the pieces after WWII. Slowly and painfully over time with the certain knowledge that Mother Nature could knock it all down again at a moments notice.

I wonder if they will get the sort of help they got after WWII though? I mean, the biggest amount of US troops in Japan is in Okinawa and they're not exactly popular. I hope that Japan can do this solo...but I have my doubts.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I wonder if they will get the sort of help they got after WWII though? I mean, the biggest amount of US troops in Japan is in Okinawa and they're not exactly popular. I hope that Japan can do this solo...but I have my doubts.

Well, if Japan keeps shifting this way meter by meter with every quake, maybe we'll just make them the 51st state and they can apply for federal funding. What's a few bjillion more in debt?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Well, if Japan keeps shifting this way meter by meter with every quake, maybe we'll just make them the 51st state and they can apply for federal funding. What's a few bjillion more in debt?

Well, if you're going to go bankrupt you might as well do it in style!

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by tater

Had not seen this one. Wow.

That is really quite scary, you think the water really can't get any higher and it still does.

News isn't good from Fukushima either

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707

I suspect that either a reactor is breached or that the spent fuel has got out of the tank. Either way it's going to make the clean up a lot harder.

[tater]

I've come to the conclusion that if the author of a news story about any of the reactor problems doesn't have a background in nuke-E, radiation tech, physics (ideally health physics), or some other radiation aware profession, you might as well not read anything other than "there are problems with the reactors."

The stories have no understanding of radiation. The routinely (almost entirely, in fact) confuse a dose, with a measured rate. They will talk about a rate accurately, but not mention how long anyone was exposed to it. They do not mention the type of radiation, or the source. They do not put it in a context to other doses people get (just hanging out, or people who fly a lot, etc).

There seems to be a % of responders in Japan right now who themselves are weak in understanding the risks. There was a picture of guys wearing respirator OVER their clothing, for example Got a good seal against the hood, did they?

It's clearly a bad situation, but the press makes every story as bad as possible.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Reece

Everytime I see another video I am dumbfounded!! It must have been so horrifying for so many, and I still have to wonder how they are going to clean up this huge mess!!

Most of the country is in pretty good shape. It is not a country wide disaster. It is more along the lines of Hurricane Katrina in the U.S. (apart from the nuclear meltdown). Fortunately, Japan has the resources to rebuild and they were well prepared for this.

I feel bad for the people who live in that area though. I wonder what they will do. If the land and buildings are contaminated who will pay? Will TEPCO but there property? Will the government compensate them? Will insurance cover any of this?

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

That is really quite scary, you think the water really can't get any higher and it still does.

News isn't good from Fukushima either

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707

TEPCO has since retracted that statement about a higher level of radiation saying the claim was "not credible" and they "made a mistake." Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder if that institution isn't being run by the Japanese equivalent of Homer Simpson.

[Respenus]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

TEPCO has since retracted that statement about a higher level of radiation saying the claim was "not credible" and they "made a mistake." Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder if that institution isn't being run by the Japanese equivalent of Homer Simpson.

While I agree with your judgement of the whole situation and the company running the nuclear power plants, the last verified radiation levels were 1.000milisieverts per hour. In any case, not something you wish to be hanging around with to verify precisely your readings. Although it does seem that they aren't really competent enough to be running this sort of an operation. The owners that is, as for the workers, my hat's off in their honour. If the original 50 are still there, they, along with all the others, must have been exposed to dangerous levels of radiation (total dosage that is).

[Torplexed]

Well, I think sometime in the near future Japan needs to start investing in a fleet of remotely-controlled bulldozers and helicopters to help bury the site although it probably still needs to cool down a bit more. Kaman builds the K-MAX unmanned copter which has a 6,000-pound lifter. Might be handy for dumping fill.

However, I imagine most every bulldozer and helicopter in Japan is busy elsewhere nowadays.

[tater]

"The 50" are presumably wearing total dose badges. The rate really is sort of meaningless. Did they measure 1000 where they were, or was the monitoring aimed at measuring the dose rate enough ahead that the idea is to prevent walking into the higher rate?

Besides, that 1,000 millisieverts per hour was quoted as "airborne radiation." Huh? How are betas, alphas, gammas, etc floating about on the air? Perhaps they meant airborne contamination? Contamination requires a volume.

If that number published were in fact true they'd be dead. On the spot. It's not a small multiple of what is considered safe, it's drop dead fatal in a few hours. Why? 1000 millisieverts per hour is 100 rem per hour—not breathing it in (contamination), but just zinging through you.

Also the report I read then says that millisieverts per hour is 4X the allowed limit? Huh? The allowed limit is a DOSE, not a dose RATE. 1000 millisieverts for 1 minute. Not a problem. for 14 minutes? You're still below the limit. Total dose warning goes off at 15 minutes (when you've received 250 millisieverts).

Dose rates control how long you can be someplace. Stay a short enough time, and it is no problem.

If you're reading or hearing it through the filter of some journalism major and the story involves science... take it with many grains of salt.

Of course they don't say airborne anyway (the plant people), they say water.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/27_24.html

Presumably if you are standing it it?

[Catfish]

1st report:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707

2nd report:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12875327

Tepco said it was an error, but it is still at 1000 Millisievert per hour ??!!

"A spokesman for Japan's nuclear watchdog, Hidehiko Nishiyama, said the level of radiation in puddles near reactor 2 was confirmed at 1,000 millisieverts an hour."



Tater wrote:
" ...I've come to the conclusion that if the author [...] doesn't have a background in nuke-E, radiation tech, physics (ideally health physics), or some other radiation aware profession, you might as well not read anything other than "there are problems with the reactors."

You let yourself be governed by people who have much less knowledge about this and other stuff.
But they decide whether to use nuclear energy or not, amongst other vital decisions they know a sh!t of.

Greetings,
Catfish

[tater]

[I-25]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder if that institution isn't being run by the Japanese equivalent of Homer Simpson.