Plotting Exploit or Not?

Pisces · 01-21-10, 01:20 PM

The only 'error' in his reporting is that it is rounded to 100 meters. But other than that it's spot on. Too spot on to be realistic. Exploit? Perhaps, depends on personal limmitations.

But why is it 'wrong' for him to give range when on the surface?

ryanwigginton · 01-21-10, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces

But why is it 'wrong' for him to give range when on the surface?

There's nothing 'wrong' with it. Apart from, you get the information too quickly and too accurately.

johan_d · 01-21-10, 02:45 PM

Dunno, but assume you are the captain, laying in your bed and some comes in telling 'ship sighted' then you ask what ship? they answer it with for example a merchant.
Now next question you as is perhaps how far away ? the spotter gives your a value, lets say 'about 5 km' in front of us.
So, you always have a value to start with. If it is 5104 meters or about 5 km, your desicison making is the same.

ryanwigginton · 01-21-10, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan_d

Dunno, but assume you are the captain, laying in your bed and some comes in telling 'ship sighted' then you ask what ship? they answer it with for example a merchant.
Now next question you as is perhaps how far away ? the spotter gives your a value, lets say 'about 5 km' in front of us.
So, you always have a value to start with. If it is 5104 meters or about 5 km, your desicison making is the same.

It's not so much the decsion making, but the fact that with a click of a button I get exact bearing and range. Which in turn allows me to calculate exact target heading and exact target speed. I just think there must have been more 'fudge-factor' and more work involved to get the information in the first place, in particular the range.

Pisces · 01-21-10, 04:54 PM

I agree that the developers neglected to add such randomness to his report. But totally removing such a value from his report is like "throwing the kid out with the bathwater". You can allways round it off to the nearest 500m or 1km mark, yourself. And with OLCs implementation of the Range and AOB finder you can do it yourself and get the reasonable amount of randomness/measurement error.

[EDIT] Bearing isn't that exact. How wide do you think it (1 degree) is at 16 km range? And that is only before plotting it on the map. Placing the line adds another bit of directional error. That's why I do not rely much on the 3m15 interval. The uncertainty of position plots is then well beyond 100 meters. I average over longer periods.

Dissaray · 01-21-10, 05:01 PM

With practise it isn't that hard to make visual range estamates that would be accurate enuf to target or plot course from. My two borothers and dad both bow hunt and that involves a lot of guessing at range so they can figure out how high up they have to aim to compisate for gravity and the three of them can come close enuf to hit most of the time, so long as there isn't elivation changes I guess.

So it is not imposible to look at some thing and know about how far way it is, at sea I guess it would be a little harder without any other referance points to work with, but I would bet an experianced watch hand would be able to come with in 150 meters of the actual distance.

Bosje · 01-22-10, 09:52 AM

hmm my problem is that you're working with rather large pixels

i cant use OLCs tools unless a target is within 3km, which is no use when trying to work out his course and speed for an interception during daylight.

the watch officer giving exact values is fine for me, i'll draw the lines and the inaccuracy will happen automatically. so that results in a perfect gameplay thing, even if it starts with unrealistically accurate range values.

convoys are the real pain, because the WO will give a report on some escort, i really never learned to properly work out a convoy plot, that's my only real problem with OLCs work. Other than that, it's magnicifent!

ps how do i enable a bearing ring again?

ryanwigginton · 01-22-10, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosje

hmm my problem is that you're working with rather large pixels

i cant use OLCs tools unless a target is within 3km, which is no use when trying to work out his course and speed for an interception during daylight.

Less than 3km for smaller ships. Have you tried the hi-res mod to see if this makes the scope easier to use? -a zoom would be great but I know this causes problems with the waves in OLC.

By the way, does anyone know how range from the deck was normally estimated? Did they go down and use the scope or can it be done with the UZOs?

onelifecrisis · 01-24-10, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosje

convoys are the real pain, because the WO will give a report on some escort, i really never learned to properly work out a convoy plot, that's my only real problem with OLCs work.

If you zoom out, on the map view, then a the convoy will be marked on your map. The convoy will be represented by a single large marker. Its position will not be super-accurate because of the map zoom, which is intentional, but if you put an X there and record the time and then shadow the convoy for a while (say 30km or whatever) then put another X on your map at the convoy's new location, then voila - you have the course and speed of the convoy! Now you can flank before submerging for an attack, and when you attack you will already have speed and AOB data and will only need to calculate the range to each target.

I like this method because it's how they did it IRL, and it's not complicated to do. You just put an X where the convoy is. How hard is that?

01-21-10, 01:20 PM	#1
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	The only 'error' in his reporting is that it is rounded to 100 meters. But other than that it's spot on. Too spot on to be realistic. Exploit? Perhaps, depends on personal limmitations. But why is it 'wrong' for him to give range when on the surface? __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

01-21-10, 04:54 PM	#5
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	I agree that the developers neglected to add such randomness to his report. But totally removing such a value from his report is like "throwing the kid out with the bathwater". You can allways round it off to the nearest 500m or 1km mark, yourself. And with OLCs implementation of the Range and AOB finder you can do it yourself and get the reasonable amount of randomness/measurement error. [EDIT] Bearing isn't that exact. How wide do you think it (1 degree) is at 16 km range? And that is only before plotting it on the map. Placing the line adds another bit of directional error. That's why I do not rely much on the 3m15 interval. The uncertainty of position plots is then well beyond 100 meters. I average over longer periods. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads Last edited by Pisces; 01-21-10 at 05:05 PM.

01-22-10, 09:52 AM	#7
Bosje Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 732 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	hmm my problem is that you're working with rather large pixels i cant use OLCs tools unless a target is within 3km, which is no use when trying to work out his course and speed for an interception during daylight. the watch officer giving exact values is fine for me, i'll draw the lines and the inaccuracy will happen automatically. so that results in a perfect gameplay thing, even if it starts with unrealistically accurate range values. convoys are the real pain, because the WO will give a report on some escort, i really never learned to properly work out a convoy plot, that's my only real problem with OLCs work. Other than that, it's magnicifent! ps how do i enable a bearing ring again? __________________ And when an 800-ton Uboat has you by the tits... you listen!

01-21-10, 02:45 PM	#3
johan_d Samurai Navy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 556 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 1	Dunno, but assume you are the captain, laying in your bed and some comes in telling 'ship sighted' then you ask what ship? they answer it with for example a merchant. Now next question you as is perhaps how far away ? the spotter gives your a value, lets say 'about 5 km' in front of us. So, you always have a value to start with. If it is 5104 meters or about 5 km, your desicison making is the same.

01-21-10, 05:01 PM	#6
Dissaray 中国水兵 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 280 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	With practise it isn't that hard to make visual range estamates that would be accurate enuf to target or plot course from. My two borothers and dad both bow hunt and that involves a lot of guessing at range so they can figure out how high up they have to aim to compisate for gravity and the three of them can come close enuf to hit most of the time, so long as there isn't elivation changes I guess. So it is not imposible to look at some thing and know about how far way it is, at sea I guess it would be a little harder without any other referance points to work with, but I would bet an experianced watch hand would be able to come with in 150 meters of the actual distance.