New to manual targeting..

cbrown · 01-03-10, 03:16 AM

Okay, I've read about it, looked at some tutorials and now I think I have the basic understanding and would like to try manual aiming, except for one question...

I'm really must apologize, but it's a really stupid question..

I put in the estimated speed, the Aob, and range. When I am looking through the periscope, when do I fire? At 0 deg or the lead angle?

I am under the impression that I don't need to use lead angle if I am using the TDC. Is this correct? And the lead angle calculator only works at 90 deg.

Thanks

magic452 · 01-03-10, 03:59 AM

No apology necessary we all have asked similar questions in the past.

There are many methods for getting a firing solution and seems like your getting them mixed up.

For a TDC/PK attack you input Speed, AoB and range/bearing into the TDC and send all to the position Keeper (PK) that is the set of dials on the left
On the bottom right of that panel is a button to turn on the PK. This will update the firing solution as the target moves so you can fire any time you have a good solution. With map contacts ON and if you have entered good data, looking at the attack map there will be a white X that will be right on or very close to the target and it will follow the target as it moves. If the X is off adjust your data till it's correct. As long as the X is on the target you can fire and should get a hit. You will want to be at a good AoB, something between 45° and 90°. I use 65 to 90°
OPEN THE TORPEDO DOORS FIRST, Q key.

Shooting using a lead angle is a different firing solution, constant bearing solutions. Dick O'Kane (90°), Cromwell (45°) vector analysis, any AoB.
You do not turn on the PK for any of them and with vector analysis you don't input any thing into the TDC unless you have used it for some other attack. These are zero gyro angle attacks so the torpedo shoots straight out the front and the lead angle is just that, you shoot when the target gets to that bearing angle.

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask, so feel free to ask away.

With manual targeting it takes some practice but soon the light goes on and it gets very easy. Stick with it.

Magic

VirtualVikingX · 01-03-10, 06:04 AM

Thanks from me also, Magic! This is the question I always wondered, but were afraid to ask. Still planning to get on with manual targeting.

cbrown · 01-03-10, 06:32 AM

Thanks for the help! One more question...Which method was the most realistic way, using the TDC or lead angle approach?

magic452 · 01-03-10, 11:43 PM

The constant bearing methods (lead angle) described here were developed by various members of the forum and I don't know if any were used in the war.
Some of the history buffs here could answer that better than I.

For my money I would say that the TDC/PK is the most realistic.
Constant bearing is by far the most accurate.

Magic

Bubblehead1980 · 01-04-10, 12:21 AM

TDC/PK is the historically accurate way to fire torpedos and to me, the easiest.Some have trouble with it and use other methods.The historical way works for me so I use it.

Armistead · 01-04-10, 01:38 AM

Learn them all over time, you'll find yourself in situations where you'll prefer one over the other. All the real skippers used some different methods or a combination of them.

O'Kane is my favorite by far. I mostly shoot by sonar, so it works great, plus good way to shoot in storms when you can't see.

sergei · 01-04-10, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Learn them all over time, you'll find yourself in situations where you'll prefer one over the other.

Seconded. Have as many tricks in your bag as possible.

gutted · 01-04-10, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Have as many tricks in your bag as possible.

this

Rockin Robbins · 01-05-10, 08:04 AM

Reminds me of a stickied thread buried around here somewhere...

cbrown · 01-05-10, 10:39 AM

Okay I have been trying to sink the cruiser in sub school #3 using 90 degree approach and I keep missing ahead.

I use 12 kts as target speed, send it to the TDC, max out the range, select 10 degree lead angle, set the Aob to 080 (090 minus 10 deg lead angle). I open all doors and set speed to high.

My course is 000 and as the target crosses 350, I shoot EVERYTHING as the target passes from its bow to its stern. As I check the attack map, all of the torpedoes miss ahead.

What did I do wrong? Should I have shot as the target crossed 000 on the periscope instead of 350 or leave the Aob at 090?

Any suggestions? I was using O'Kane attack crib notes as reference.

Thanks

Andrew82 · 01-05-10, 11:50 AM

Have you put the periscope to 350 and then pushed the "send to TDC" button?

( I'm just a noob but I'm practicing the same thing

)

cbrown · 01-05-10, 12:07 PM

Yes, I set the periscope to 350 and sent the info to the tdc.

Munchausen · 01-05-10, 12:40 PM

You didn't mention it but I assume the target is heading 090. Right?

cbrown · 01-05-10, 12:55 PM

Yes, the target is heading 090, in the begining anyways.... I did not check its course again, since I was rushing through the calculations before it had past. MAybe I need to re-check its course....

01-03-10, 03:16 AM	#1
cbrown Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 9 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	New to manual targeting.. Okay, I've read about it, looked at some tutorials and now I think I have the basic understanding and would like to try manual aiming, except for one question... I'm really must apologize, but it's a really stupid question.. I put in the estimated speed, the Aob, and range. When I am looking through the periscope, when do I fire? At 0 deg or the lead angle? I am under the impression that I don't need to use lead angle if I am using the TDC. Is this correct? And the lead angle calculator only works at 90 deg. Thanks

01-03-10, 03:59 AM	#2
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	No apology necessary we all have asked similar questions in the past. There are many methods for getting a firing solution and seems like your getting them mixed up. For a TDC/PK attack you input Speed, AoB and range/bearing into the TDC and send all to the position Keeper (PK) that is the set of dials on the left On the bottom right of that panel is a button to turn on the PK. This will update the firing solution as the target moves so you can fire any time you have a good solution. With map contacts ON and if you have entered good data, looking at the attack map there will be a white X that will be right on or very close to the target and it will follow the target as it moves. If the X is off adjust your data till it's correct. As long as the X is on the target you can fire and should get a hit. You will want to be at a good AoB, something between 45° and 90°. I use 65 to 90° OPEN THE TORPEDO DOORS FIRST, Q key. Shooting using a lead angle is a different firing solution, constant bearing solutions. Dick O'Kane (90°), Cromwell (45°) vector analysis, any AoB. You do not turn on the PK for any of them and with vector analysis you don't input any thing into the TDC unless you have used it for some other attack. These are zero gyro angle attacks so the torpedo shoots straight out the front and the lead angle is just that, you shoot when the target gets to that bearing angle. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask, so feel free to ask away. With manual targeting it takes some practice but soon the light goes on and it gets very easy. Stick with it. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

01-03-10, 11:43 PM	#5
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	The constant bearing methods (lead angle) described here were developed by various members of the forum and I don't know if any were used in the war. Some of the history buffs here could answer that better than I. For my money I would say that the TDC/PK is the most realistic. Constant bearing is by far the most accurate. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

01-05-10, 08:04 AM	#10
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Reminds me of a stickied thread buried around here somewhere... __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

01-05-10, 11:50 AM	#12
Andrew82 Torpedoman Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 113 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Have you put the periscope to 350 and then pushed the "send to TDC" button? ( I'm just a noob but I'm practicing the same thing ) __________________ TMO 2.2

01-03-10, 06:04 AM	#3
VirtualVikingX Captain Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 262 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Thanks from me also, Magic! This is the question I always wondered, but were afraid to ask. Still planning to get on with manual targeting.

01-03-10, 06:32 AM	#4
cbrown Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 9 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the help! One more question...Which method was the most realistic way, using the TDC or lead angle approach?

01-04-10, 12:21 AM	#6
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,209 Downloads: 621 Uploads: 44	TDC/PK is the historically accurate way to fire torpedos and to me, the easiest.Some have trouble with it and use other methods.The historical way works for me so I use it.

01-04-10, 01:38 AM	#7
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Learn them all over time, you'll find yourself in situations where you'll prefer one over the other. All the real skippers used some different methods or a combination of them. O'Kane is my favorite by far. I mostly shoot by sonar, so it works great, plus good way to shoot in storms when you can't see.

01-05-10, 10:39 AM	#11
cbrown Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 9 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Okay I have been trying to sink the cruiser in sub school #3 using 90 degree approach and I keep missing ahead. I use 12 kts as target speed, send it to the TDC, max out the range, select 10 degree lead angle, set the Aob to 080 (090 minus 10 deg lead angle). I open all doors and set speed to high. My course is 000 and as the target crosses 350, I shoot EVERYTHING as the target passes from its bow to its stern. As I check the attack map, all of the torpedoes miss ahead. What did I do wrong? Should I have shot as the target crossed 000 on the periscope instead of 350 or leave the Aob at 090? Any suggestions? I was using O'Kane attack crib notes as reference. Thanks

01-05-10, 12:07 PM	#13
cbrown Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 9 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Yes, I set the periscope to 350 and sent the info to the tdc.

01-05-10, 12:40 PM	#14
Munchausen Commodore Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 608 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	You didn't mention it but I assume the target is heading 090. Right?

01-05-10, 12:55 PM	#15
cbrown Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 9 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Yes, the target is heading 090, in the begining anyways.... I did not check its course again, since I was rushing through the calculations before it had past. MAybe I need to re-check its course....